Originally Posted by
Ftrooppilot
There is a great difference between serving under a flag and "for" the politicians
Agreed. For the record, when I talk about service I'm talking about service to the nation, not "for the politicians".
Originally Posted by
Ftrooppilot
I took an oath and served 22 years; my wife served six. Our loyalty was to our fellow airmen, mission and country - not to any politician.
I understand. And as I have stated (and this is one thing that can never, EVER be repeated enough), human words simply cannot convey the appreciation and gratitude I hold in my soul for men and women such as yourself and your wife...even when I am in disagreement/dislike with them.
Originally Posted by
Ftrooppilot
I never met a military member or vet who despised the flag.
I wish I could say the same thing. Unlike you, the few I have met could not differentiate between the nation and the politicians. And as for the politicians, there are a few who "served" who I would argue despise the flag enough to throw their fellow servicemen under the bus. Or perhaps it's more accurate to say they are so narcissistic as to only care about themselves such that they were/are readily willing to throw their fellow servicemen under the bus for their own gain, and have. Fortunately for all of us, they are the exception and not the rule. I worry that this is changing, though.
Originally Posted by
Ftrooppilot
In fact they cherish the thought of (the flag) being folded over their casket some day.
I deeply empathize!! This honor will not be mine to enjoy, loath as I am to admit it. One of the greatest regrets of my life, and always will be. I tired to join up on 3 separate occasions post-9/11...each time the age limit was raised (to my knowledge)...and was always turned down because I was deemed "too old" (the last time by just 4 months). In hindsight I think I should've sued the gov't over it. Imagine...someone suing the gov't in order to join the military voluntarily! Of course, then I would've been labeled "insane" and unfit to serve. And I am not alone. I have the very great honor and privilege to know a former VCSAF. He commented to me, personally, that it was a great shame that "folks like us" (ie. deemed to old to serve) could not join up to augment the services. Past his prime and retired, he would have willingly re-joined as a private to drive supply trucks in Iraq. He is as fine a gentleman and leader as I will ever meet in this lifetime. No doubt some of you served under him. Speaking of...
Originally Posted by
Ftrooppilot
I served under the worse SECDEF in history (McNamara) but anticipate that Hagel will be even worse.

Yes. I share that same fear.
Originally Posted by
PasserOGas
UnderOveur, you need to realize something that many military members figure out shortly after signing up.
At least in the Air Force, your leadership is largely comprised of careerist "yes men" who will make your life a living hell with no compunction when it means a quicker promotion for themselves.
I do indeed realize and am aware of this. Were I you, I would've put "" marks around the word "leadership", because the kind you speak of is anything BUT authentic leadership. Some branches are worse than others in this regard, and this is getting worse and worse with the passage of time.
Originally Posted by
PasserOGas
Then you have a population in the US who have no 'effing clue what is asked for of our men and women in uniform who elect into congress people who also have no idea what it’s like to serve.
Yes. They are called "low information voters", and certain segments of our nation are doing their best to increase their numbers, even while telling them (and the rest of us) the exact opposite.
Originally Posted by
PasserOGas
Please look into your academic literature as to how many of our last SecDef's had a single day in uniform.
I am well aware of it. If I got to play dictator for a day, I would make it a law that the SecDef had to have served at one point in his career (and I would be tempted to make it a further requirement that that person had to have been both A) male (representing the majority) and B) a US Marine Corp officer). Speaking of...
Originally Posted by
PasserOGas
From what I can tell the marines attract a different sort of officer. (Understatement of the year.)
Indeed they do. My personal and current favorite is Gen. James Mattis. I am deeply saddened that he will retire next month. This is a man who, with multiple stars on his shoulderboard, would go out at 2-3AM and get into foxholes with privates and corporals to get the real scoop of what was happening with the line soldiers. The man embodies authentic leadership at it's finest and highest level, and his enemies fear(ed) him like no other. His retirement will be a great loss to the Marines, the DoD, and our country.
Originally Posted by
PasserOGas
I think the point of this though is to say you hate the flag because you look suspiciously at our government and it's leaders is way off base. I think one needs to realize that there are many people in our government who care more about themselves than "the flag" and being upset about that or pointing it out isn't unpatriotic.
That is a darn good point, and I read you loud and clear. I will do my best to remember that. I am in 100% agreement with those who believe that the members of our services have been short-changed by their leadership, both military and especially civilian. It is a very great blessing for those doing the short-changing that I am not and never will be a dictator, because I would not tolerate it for a millisecond and would make of them such an example that others would never dare follow.