Carry over from another thread for those spectating, but you will always get creamed in negotiations when you set yourself up from the beginning as completely unwilling and unable to walk away. syd111 knows this of course, but is trying to justify nuking the profession back to the stone age to protect one's seniority list, and he is ignoring that I placed a significant share of the blame on all pilot groups, including my own, so he can play helpless victim of circumstance.