Originally Posted by
Probe
So I have a question for all the l-CAL guys, including the very moderate ones like OleCal. At first I didn't believe that the CAL side should get penalized for their leadership submitting falsified longevity data on their "certified" seniority list.
In the ensuing day or so, not one of the CAL pilots has denounced that act. By not denouncing it, you agree with it?
UAL also had flow through agreements with express during furlough. Some of our pilots took it. I don't know how many. Most of them thought they could do better, and did. Not one single day of UAX express flying was submitted as UAL longevity time. Our dates of hire, dates of furlough, and dates of recall were submitted to the day on UAL's "certified" seniority list.
Maybe I was mistaken in my opinion. Since you all seem to agree with your leadership falsifying the data, I hope the arbitrators punish the l-CAL side severely.
First, your premise is wrong on the falsifiication. Just because it was insinuated by your counsel and committee , and addressed by our counsel doesn't mean you are right. You're just stating a differeing opinion. Secondly, I do not believe the panel will reorder( nor can they) or rearbitrate our list that has been through numerous arbitrations, company agreements and court decisions, just because it doesn't fit the UA worldview or they can't figure it out. BTW, I fly with allot of the flow through and flow back guys and the process and longevity accrural was exactly how it was explained to me by those pilots.
Thirdly, I think Katz comments, about your list was spot on about your ridiculous stovepipes and conditions. "what's mine is mine and What's your's is mine", sums up your proposal. CAL gives us allot of NB Captain positions immediately, for UA WB FO seats, and after 20 years have an opportunity to fly WB Captains; 500:1 ratio of UA to CAL pilots on the list, with two CAL pilots, currently 1 number apart...now wedged between 500 UA pilots. Other incidences of wide spreads advantaging UAthroughout the list. UA fences 747s, anywhere in the systems, but can fly our 787s orders pre-merger, if their flown at L-UA domicile....(7 out of 11 chance). You even acknowledged this to be true during the cross. Even the arbitrator made mention of that ratio. Effectively flying our pre-merger orders that are not your metal. Gaining full access to our 737 pre-merger orders that continue and Captain seats, and the trade off is WB FO? Our Captains and FOs behind guys currently on the street. Furlough conditions, that are laughable and I think that was obvious to all. If that is not robbing Peter, to pay for Paul's (L-UA) poor past, then I don't know what is. News flash... Both list are two extremes!!!! Pinning UA 97-99 guys is wrong and will not fly, nor will the UA proposal. I think the arbitrators last day homework to both sides, is clear that they will not except either list in totality...hence put yourself in the other shoes directive by the arbitrators and tell us what adjustments you will recommend to bridge the Grand Canyon...