Originally Posted by
KoruPilot
I tend to disagree with a number of your points. The deal with ONEX for a start. Gerry Schwarz was looking to merge the two money losing companies into one profitable one. Milton was not forced to do anything. He over bid because of his ego. The losers were the shareholders and the employees. But hey, he and his buddies at GCAS are driving Ferraris, so it's OK.
I stand corrected, AC mainline no longer flies CRJ's, they now fly ERJ's. My mistake.
My company ordered (remember the options here in the totals here)over 40 777/787's. I'm not naive enough to think we'll ever see half of them. Most, like AC, will be for fleet replacement. I won't see the pretty numbers at the top of the pay scale for some time. Our friends at WJ will be on six figures and in the left seat years before we are. And they won't be stuck on a stby Xmas run to Osaka.
I think your last line is the most telling with how AC is run, and the realities of operating an airline in this day and age; likely a big reason AC will continue to lose money while WJ will continue to be profitable. It's also the reason I'd stay far away from AC. The airlines in the States that ran the same way ended with the worst pay in the industry. But hey, time and the next contract will tell.
Again, many of those orders are replacements. AC runs the ERJ against WJ 737's with inflight entertainment and enough belley space to actually carry all the pax baggage. 7 to 12 years for an upgrade to the A320, even my airline beats that. At WJ it's averaged two. Good point about the high end pay scale, but again, I don't believe that with the current managers it will be around for too long.
Don't get me wrong here, I understand your point, and if Milton wasn't evil and self serving, and they didn't have such a monstrous debt (yes, they still do, no matter how they fiddle with the numbers) I'd try very hard to believe that AC was going to be a place to be. I just don't. Look at the past for insight into the future and I think one get's a good idea of what is likely to happen, hence my reference to what SW now has as far as QOL and pay vs. the big airlines, not to mention benifits (I'll leave the AC benifits to you; retirement fund etc.).
Either way good luck with it. A good upside with AC is that you can take that nice new Bus or Boeing ticket and go somewhere hot if they do run into trouble again.
And I like Thunder Bay. I used to be based out of there. You should really give it a try. I hear Bearskin is hiring.
"Gerry Schwarz was looking to merge the two money losing companies into one profitable one"
For one Air Canada was in rapid expansion at the time and were profitable, upgrade on the 320 was at about 3 years! 767 not to far off from that. Another Schwarz was not looking to merge it into one profitable carrier.... he was looking to merge it then sell off it off in pieces at a profit! Thats what ONEX does, thats how take over firms make their money. The AC purchase of canadian did not happen until after the onex deal fell through.... AC didnt outbid them. The Air Canada pilots were threating strike and were threating to sink Air Canada if the deal went through. Managment fought along side them all through it, it should be noted milton was very admired by the employees at the time.... which is why everyone hates him now for stabbing them in the back after.
It was believed at the time Air Canada bought Canadian, that canadian only could operate for maybe another week at most. Then out of no where AirCanada purchases Canadian, due to EXTREAME pressure from that frog of a liberal.... because in this socialist country they couldnt stand the thought of several thousand people unemployed. Canadian government was threating to withhold international routes if they didnt.
It is also nice to point out that AC had one of the youngest if not the youngest fleet in the world at the time. And were one of the most respected airlines in the world. It had to THROW AWAY almost all of Canadians fleet(737's and DC10's) ANd had to spend millions to bring the few 320's and 767's up to AirCanadas standards.
Basicaly the only thing AC got from Canadian was a few South American and Asia routes!
"Our friends at WJ will be on six figures and in the left seat years before we are."
AC pilots can make that within 2 years(after formula pay is done)
"won't be stuck on a stby Xmas run to Osaka."
Youre right, they wont... they will be enjoying their motel 6 in Saskatoon while that poor AC pilot enjoys a steak dinner at his $300 a night hotel with his nice fat $500 expense check!
"AC will continue to lose money while WJ will continue to be profitable"
THey had been posting profits up until their slower 4th quarter
"many of those orders are replacements. AC runs the ERJ against WJ 737's with inflight entertainment "
Only a few are replacements. All the Embraers are expansion, 777 will slowly phase out the 340's over many years, and their is no indication of replacing the 767's with the 787's imediatly. And the 190's have the personal TV's too! All AC fleet will have them now.
"I don't believe that with the current managers it will be around for too long"
Is that why AC just made the 777 payscale almost $30 an hour more the the 340's, just to take it away a year later?
"Either way good luck with it. A good upside with AC is that you can take that nice new Bus or Boeing ticket and go somewhere hot if they do run into trouble again"
If Air Canada goes under, the Canadian economy tanks! The country goes into deep depression..... aint gonna happen, AirCanada will be around forever!