Originally Posted by L'il J.Seinfeld
I beg to differ, Alex. SUPT teaches students to say "clearance on request, standing by ready to copy." Since many commercial pilots are military trained, it probably is just a habit pattern. I do it and will continue to since that was how I learned and it gets the desired effect.
Originally Posted by L'il J.Seinfeld
Alex, I concede to you. I assume the AIM says what you claim. Fact is I have never opened the AIM. All I know is that when I start my preflight I let clearance delivery know "clearnace on request, ready to copy." Sometimes immediately, but usually later I get my IFR. It has the desired effect. All I am saying is that the mil teaches that technique and many mil pilots use it. Why do you guys care so much?
You may realize at some point in your career, Mr. Seinfeld, that the instructors you had in SUPT were not perfect. As I'm sure you know, even military pilots are expected to comply with domestic rules of aviation, for the most part, they just don't read the Code of Federal Regulations to determine what those rules are. When I was learning, I looked to AFR 60-16 and AFM 51-37 rather than a FAR/AIM, but I was ostensibly learning the same stuff. (I know it's not AFRs and AFMS now, something like AFIs (Instructions?), but the concept is the same.) I also was taught to say something to the effect of, "Columbus Clearance, Mustang 51, IFR to Fort Campbell, Clearance on Request." It was never questioned; it always worked. It was technically wrong.
I don't know if you're still in the military or flying civilian now, but if it's the latter, I strongly recommend you become familiar with the AIM. If it's the former, I strongly recommend you become familiar with the AIM.
It was my desire as a military aviator to be the best I could, and that included learning from all the resources available. The SAC Instrument Course of that day has evolved into what I believe today is the Air Force Advanced Instrument Course - - an outstanding opportunity to learn about the career that I believe you have chosen. Do you need to know what the AIM says or how TERPS plays into the design of an Instrument Approach in order to safely and correctly fly one? No, but doing so gives one a much greater appreciation of the "Big Picture."
I don't know why some guys choose to begin threads on a topic like this, and I don't know why some people argue the contrary, and I don't know why I'm posting here either, except maybe to help each other do a better job. I know the day I stop learning will be the day I stop breathing. I don't recall the particular moment in my life when the light of truth was shined on my misunderstanding of "Clearance on Request," but I think my response must have been something to the effect of, "Hmmm, I didn't know that. I'll try to do it correctly from now on."
So, while you correctly observe that many of us do it that way because we were taught that in the military, you should acknowledge the error of our ways, and strive to correct it in the future. Providing the rationale to "those guys" helps them understand why we screwed it up, and them providing the correct procedure helps us fix it. It's a win-win, if we can see it that way.
Happy flying.
- The truth only hurts if it should -