Frankly these are negotiations. Management can point at competing pilot pay/work rules all day long, but that doesn't mean that the rates we offer mainline are dependent upon our pay. Thats all management wants us to think though. Running a more efficient operation with efficient airplanes has more of a factor on cost than pilot group wages. Why else do you think they were pushing SCF, fly the block, econ speeds, staff to make reserves work 74.9 hrs etc so hard? I think we could realistically get raises and still be competitive. We don't have to win all RFPs or even grow. I see nothing changing being a minimum acceptable thing, and I'm sure management has already planned for that being the end result. Managements move on all this is oh whats the qoute? Under commit, over preform? "Hey we all need pay cuts to survive...*negotiations*..hey we are happy to announce no pay cuts!! ~pilots sigh of relief and are satisfied, management sighs of relief that they avoid giving raises while being profitable.

Put it this way, under what circumstances do you ever see it being clear to management that pay raises would be a good move? Even when we are profitable and picking up new RFPs, they can counter with well the future looks really cut throat and competetive, so I dont think we can. They can sing that song and kick the can down the road all day long.