Originally Posted by
alfaromeo
.....It really becomes impossible to gauge any performance when you write everything off as "it would happen anyway", when in fact you don't know if any of it would have happened. This is a cop out and a poor excuse for analysis. "Oh yeah, we would have gotten that anyway." Okay, then you have set the rules where you can win any argument because we are now operating in your fantasy world that can never be questioned because it exists only in your own mind. Look back at all the other pilot groups and let me know how often they "got that on their own anyway". In fact they didn't get jack until we set the entire industry on it's ear last year.
Wait a minute, Alfa.
Doesn't your argument have a flip side? Just like my daughters can't prove I wouldn't have gotten them clothes, or food, or taken them to school, when I said they had to get their act together (or else), I can't prove that management was going to offer the early retirement program, buy the 717's, and get rid of the RJ's. (I'll leave out the 14 hour limit on short call argument, because I don't think you are the one who claims that to be a contract improvement.)
But, my daughters have past performance as evidence to support their beliefs. They know that I have bought them clothes and food and taken them to school for their entire lives, no matter what they did.
Like them, I have evidence, too:
1.)
Early Retirement Program:
The Company has offered an early retirement program before. Without being asked, they did it on their own. I've heard arguments that it is beneficial to them to smooth the retirements out over time instead of having everyone retire at once. Their communications to us often indicate that this is something they worry about.
Also, they offered an early retirement program to the majority of the other employee groups the previous year, while we curiously were missing amongst the participants.
2.)
Acquisition of Boeing 717's:
The company has ordered airplanes without pilots agreeing to a contract before. In fact, I can't recall a single aircraft order that was contingent on pilots signing an agreement. Even if there has been such a case, I would venture to say that the vast majority of aircraft purchases occur without such an agreement. Normally, if an airline needs airplanes, they order them. That's what they do. Just like when parents needs to feed and clothe their kids and take them to school so as to properly raise them.
3.)
Retirement of the 50 Seat RJ's:
You, and others, are going to have to correct me if I'm wrong on this one. Wasn't the company retiring 50 seater's before our agreement? Even if I'm mistaken, there have been many people on this board, and others who have shown how they weren't economical. From talking to them, I know passengers hate them to the point where they book their trips to avoid them.
So, to me, it's isn't such a stretch that the company would have been looking to retire them regardless of whether or not we had an agreement. If it's broke, unreliable, and/or the customers hate the product, it's time to get rid of it. That's simple business sense and our management team has proven themselves to be great businessmen.
So, there it is. Past performance and business sense is what leads me to believe that the company would have offered the early retirement program, bought the 717's, and found a way to retire the 50 seater's.
Do you have any evidence that leads you to believe that they wouldn't have done these things without us signing a contract?
No jabs or cheap shots intended. Since you seem to have inside information, and since you seem to be willing to talk, I sincerely just want to know what the thinking was behind accepting these items as negotiated items for the our pilot group.
Thanks in advance.
New K