Originally Posted by Fly4Beer
Once again we defer the issue to other pilots. If the legacy pilots didn't roll over and play dead everytime pay cuts are proposed maybe there would be more pressure on LCCs to pay more if they want to continue to hire 500+ a year. Instead, pilots take paycuts and the company goes into Ch 11 anyway or execs take the little profits there are. ALPA screwed up when they gave in at Delta this last paycut. Givebacks aren't helping the company anyway. **** has a strike lost it's luster? Here's a wild concept - Delta pilots stike to stop paycuts, other ALPA/union/non-union pilots support them with slowdowns and work actions. All of a sudden the industry halts and we have a voice. But guess what, it'll never happen because those crusty old pilots I mentioned earlier care too much about their own wellfare and pensions to risk ANYTHING! Pilots protecting the profession my A$$. Fix the problems at your own airlines and the LCCs will have to follow. It is alot easier for LCCs to pay lower wages since they know the rest of the indusrty will come down to their levels. Stop the trend at the top.
Second how can LCC pilots do anything while their payrates go up (slowly), benefits and work rules improve, and the management doesn't steal from the company?
Lastly a 3rd year A320 FO at Northwest makes $77/hr while a 3rd year Capt at JB makes $116 before any 150% premium time. Lets compare apples to apples before making stupid comments about comparing pay. Don't forget that pilots at JB can upgrade in 2-2.5 years and about the same at AirTran. That isn't happening at NWA. As for the E190 pay JB pilots haven't stopped pushing for better rates and management knows that. If I had to bet I would bet on those going up within a year. Its a brand new airplane, flown by mainline JB pilots who will upgrade to CA in less then 12 months and can be 320 CAs in 12-18 mos after that. I haven't heard anything about NEWCO being flown by current NWA pilots. Lets see what those payrates will be and what ALPA will do about it.
I now will step down from my soapbox.....
We are all in this fight together, us verse the execs - and we are losing!!!. Lets stick together and support pilots who are losing pay/benefits and help LCC pilots to fight for more $$$. Direct the anger at the execs not at your bros/sisters.
Am I reading this right you blame delta pilots for your pay? huh. Isn't delta pay still above most LCC's except southwest even after pay cuts. Maybe the LCC's would pay more if they didn't have thousands of apps on file waiting for the job.
I don't think a strike has lost it's luster and I assume you expect jetblue to strike soon seen as how they have been making money for the last 5 years and will be the new airline to set the bar for pay.
I highly doubt other airlines would have a work slowdown or action in support delta but I get where you are coming from.
You said to fix the problems at your own airline but don't you think that the LCC's have more problems that they need to fix. If their pay were in line delta, management couldn't use them as an example of what others are getting paid.
You asked what can LCC's do about their pay when management doesn't screw them? How much did Airtran management take this past year in bonus's? Refer to your question about a strike losing it's luster and when did pilot pay become a matter of how much management makes?
The northwest pay was comparing the 2 before 2 rounds of pay cuts and at northwest you didn't have to upgrade to make jetblue or airtran captain rates. 150% premium pay kicked in at what 70+ hours? Yeah they got paid what the rest did for the first 70 hours.
Pilots are getting their arses handed to them because we aren't 1 group (like ALPA likes to say) and there are thousands out there willing to do it for less then what we are currently getting paid. I'm all for supporting my brothers and sisters but if they show up working for roughly 60% pay and glad to do it, it's time to have a discussion.