Originally Posted by
AtlCSIP
Again, different point, and I am not being defensive of them, but I have owned and operated businesses in the past, so my perspective is different than most.
We weren't talking about the potential waste associated with 2 management teams, although I would agree with you they should be unnecessary by now, resulting in savings.
What I would do wasn't the point, but since you asked, I have never asked for pay concessions from an employee who worked for me and do not believe pay concessions are the correct way to proceed in relation to our situation. I have let people go who were not worth the pay they received, but I digress. Our issue has nothing to do with the problem of management raises or the waste associated with 2 management teams. Our issue is 1. Are we worth more than we are currently paid? Generally, yes, and 2. What can we do to increase our productivity and/or value added to justify additionl compensation beyond that which we are currently worth? If you can answer number 2 (I have some ideas, though they would not be popular) then you have reached a realistic point from which to bargain/negotiate for additional compensation beyond that needed to get us where we already should be. Once we show that our raises are deserved (which I believe they are) it is management's responsibility to determine how to fund those raises, which, you would think, would include eliminating one of the management teams, but that is their problem, not ours.
I'm on your team. We are fighting for the same things. We are worth more regardless of what management does, and that needs to be our point in negotiations.
You're looking at this whole thing from a management/business owner point of view. Most of us in this industry became pilots because we didn't want to be part of the cubicle culture. The airline industry and its pyramid scheme seniority system (where the higher the pay the less you work) has been in place since its inception. You are decrying this system, but its never going to change. In fact, it's a big reason why many of us do this day in and day out.
You also act like management compensation occurs in a vacuum. If the company was profitable and growing,and we were getting raises along with management, no one would care. But when the company isn't growing or profitable, management needs to embrace
shared sacrifice. For them to tell us we're too expensive and need to give concessions, then award themselves a raise (regardless of whether its 12% or 83%) is out of whack, and really a slap in the face. Obviously we don't need to give THAT bad if they can afford to pay him that handsomely to attend meetings and smoke cigarettes out front all day. You act like BH invented this whole thing. BH is just COO. He takes orders directly from SGU and implements them. He functions like a senior VP, yet gets paid like a CEO. And to use your argument, it's not justified for the amount of work he performs.