Originally Posted by
meyers9163
Just simply pointing out that there is this assumption that EVERYONE is taking a pay cut.... If you want to hit other areas fine. But to say everyone is taking a pay cut seems incorrect at best.....
Now the thought that everyone will be frozen at a pay rate? Prior to 9/11 how long were people staying at regional airlines? Seriously? When did regional airlines become a place for someone to stay for a career? Are regional airlines suppose to be a place for a career or was the intent of just undercutting mainline?
Funny to me you all throw these stones. Yet the basic concept that mainline should be flying these planes most would agree on. Who again was the first group to fly a plane larger then 70 seats? RAH? Mesa? Then Mesaba, Comair and ASA?
I just find it funny that the only thing in this industry that is constant is change..... To sit back and have all these guys, many of whom are flying 70 plus seat regional aircraft, act like they are doing something GREAT is amazing when we all are causing the issues in our current industry. If you are flying a plane with connection/express you are part of the problem....
So now you are telling me that things are moving and changing and regionals are now about to become what they use to be as a stepping stone it is wrong to entertain the thought of bringing on CRJ900s because a pay scale has been capped at 12 years and most will never make it to that?
Had it not been for 9/11, bankruptcy, age 65, oil spiking and then then recession this industry would have continued to have upward and outward movement from regionals. Unless you have all those happen again at once there is no denying that retirements alone will continue to cause an upward and outward movement from regionals and thus many will never see 12 years at a regional as we move forward.
To those skeptics out there that say US Airways will turn everyone down? I guess that is possible. But ultimately they want to keep longevity at PSA low. So if you have a 15 year guy interview do you really think the goal will be to say no to him? HELL no the thought is they want him out of PSA and gone ASAP because he's too expensive...... As that trend continues they are finally moving away from this speculated concept of 4 training events to replace 1 pilot and going to the mindset that we want pilots to PSA for less then 12 years......
Oh and this thought of they can put 1 AC on property and then everything freezes? It simply doesnt add up. The cost benefit to mainline to spread the cost across more AC is what they are going for. If they can spread the cost across 80 AC instead of 49 that will give them an even greater operating cost advantage.......
Who knows.... If there was a definitive answer to any of this it would be an easy vote for all.... Instead there is no correct answer.
You are completely missing the point. Your attitude of "I'm not taking a pay cut so it's ok," is incredibly short sighted and demonstrates how much you are missing the big picture. Voting yes might not hurt you today or tomorrow, but I promise in the coming years it will hurt you as you will have helped set the bar lower and placed pressure on every carrier (including mainline) to be competitive with your costs.
If you want to talk about making regionals a stepping stone then you need to look at the economics of the industry.
Regionals exist for one simple fact:
they can perform the flying cheaper than mainline. Just like with any kind of outsourcing, the supplier has to be cheaper then the company doing the work themselves, otherwise what is the point?
The best way to promote better paying jobs at mainline carriers is to economically strangle regional carriers out of existence. We can't do that by accepting things like frozen pay scales and increases in medical expenses in exchange for empty promises.
The only way to secure a better profession is to hit management where it hurts them, their wallet. Any and all attempts to "secure flying" with concessions over the past decade by regional MECs have proven to be a failed strategy.
All that has happened is that airline management has taken those concessions and used them to grow regional like a cancer (with the help of chapter 11) because it was economically attractive to do so. Do you think management cares at all about any kind of line we draw in the sand regarding scope? They don't, they see mainline scope as a hinderance and if they had their way they'd be flying every aircraft at regional wages. Of course there would be people like you eager to fly a 737 or A320 at regional rates all while claiming, "I didn't take a pay cut to do this, so its all good." Over the lifetime of your career you'd likely leave a couple million dollars on the table because of your shortsightedness.
The only way to make regionals a stepping stone it to remove the economic incentive so that the flying stays where it belongs: mainline.
That doesn't mean the CRJ-900s will ever be flown at mainline at rates that we might consider respectable. However those aircraft then become the entry level at mainline instead of "making it to the top" at a regional (as we've seen this past decade with regional lifers) for pilots.
Voting yes on this TA will continue the wave of concessions at other regionals first initiated by Pinnacle.
Mark my words, if PSA votes yes to this proposal it will have profound effects on every pilot group. God forbid we have another 9/11 or an energy crisis or another round of bankruptcies where the further relaxation of mainline scope is allowed. If something like on of those events happens and PSA or Pinnacle like cost structures exist everywhere in the industry then management will be falling over themselves to outsource larger and larger mainline aircraft.