I don't know anything about all this other stuff you two are talking about. I do know my friend who is a Korean 777 Captain grimaces many times when he tells me about commuting to his gig and what goes on there. I know I grimace at some of the stories.

I also grimace when I see I have to fly with a one of our favorite players on the 777 at FedEx.

(closest I could find to a grimace icon)