Originally Posted by
PeopleMover90
I agree with a lot of what you say, with the difference that while yes, it was selfish....I cannot be a martyr. I have a mortgage. BILLs. And a career. It sucks, but I cannot worry myself about how my vote will affect people 20 years from now. It's my job...my paycheck. Selfish yes. Practical...you bet. And with the realistic threat of a shutdown, I'm happy we are seeing new life now.
Everyone has bills to pay and everyone has a family. That is an incredibly weak argument. You are not unique in that.
When I talk about how your vote will affect people in 20 years I am talking about you! Unless you plan on quitting the airline industry then your yes vote will affect all pilots, including yourself. That's the point I've been trying to get across to you this entire time. You do not exist in a snow globe, you are a part of the entire system just like everyone else.
Also the threat of your shutdown wasn't very strong. Your leases run until 2019 by your own admission. That is five years from now and the
projected hiring at mainline would more than take care of anyone currently at PSA.
The published information I saw for American Eagle at the time of their no decisions was that their ERJs were scheduled to all be returned in 2017, and their management informed them that once they go below 70 aircraft that the operation isn't financially viable and that they would be shutdown. That would occur before 2017 since they have 47 CRJ-700s. 2-3 year shutdown, that was the information they were told at the time and yet their pilots and more importantly their LEC representatives had the balls to tell Parker no. They were hoping others, like PSA, would follow their lead and end the whipsaw. Instead your pilot group stabbed them in the back and now the American Eagle pilots have a very uncertain future and they all have families, and mortgages, and bills to pay.
Fairly recently and after their no vote (What correct me if I'm wrong) AMR management told American Eagle that they will be keeping their ERJs around longer because American needs the feed. So the threat of shutdown turned out to be overblown.
Answer me this: What did you think would honestly happen if you voted no? Vote no on Monday, they close the doors on Friday? Be realistic. It takes a while to wind down an airline operation and shift flying to another carrier. It doesn't happen overnight,
especially when you are in the midst of a merger. There a much more important things to solve like reservation systems, branding, frequent flier programs, mainline fleet rationalization, etc. Regional feed is a much smaller concern compared to the more important things.
We will never know for certain if the threat was real, but based on what has happened to American Eagle recently, the difficulty of merging, and the 5 years left on your leases it is more likely the PSA would have been around long enough for all the pilots on property to move onto greener pastures.
Originally Posted by
PeopleMover90
Second, I was going to give you more insight but your last paragraph made something clear: you're a glass half empty guy. Nothing wrong with that, but now you admit even WITH the announcement of growth and 200s staying, you still find ways to ensure this can't be the case, management is lying, and life's over anyway. So, even when things look bright for us next year and we can both we on here and say well, look at that. Exactly as planned. Your negativity and old witch attitude will still be shaking a finger at us saying, oh they'll shrink you soon.......
No, I'm just a realistic guy. I look around the entire airline industry and notice the trends.
As I said before I think that it is very likely your management will make a big and positive announcement for PSA and I even think they'll mean it. However, my point (which you missed apparently) still remains: you have to be able to staff the aircraft. No pilots, the birds remain grounded. Everyone is experiencing problems with attrition. As I said before, even RAH which has one of the brightest futures out there is having problems staffing their aircraft. Their CEO told investors that they might have to park 50 seaters in order to favor 70 and 76 seaters. RAH has a huge amount of growth potential and the most shiny jets out there for all the ERAU grads to cream their pants over yet they are still having problems.
Why would PSA be any different? What is so special about PSA that will get your airline all the pilots it needs to keep pace with hiring. Have you even looked at the mainline retirement numbers? We have barely touched the tip of the iceberg and regionals are barely keeping up. When we get neck deep into it there is no way they will keep pace. This isn't 2003 anymore.
So yes I think your management probably has every intention to keep the -200s flying, however they can't create pilots out of thin air and at the end of the day what do you think AAG will want flying? Their old -200s or the brand new -900s? The -200s will almost assuredly get parked to favor the -900s when staffing falls short. The requirements to become a pilot are 3-5 times greater, the cost is higher, and fewer people are showing up to flight school.
So again, when this massive amount of movement was pretty much assured to happen anyways, why did you sell out the rest of the industry in order to gain 12 additional interviews a year at mainline?
I'm not seeing much of an upside, however I do see a major downside if say another 9/11, two recessions, SARS, oil price rise, and international competition increases. Don't think any of that will happen? It has all happened in the last 10 years.
The cost structure you leave behind at PSA will affect your negotiating power at whatever major airline you end up at. It will also affect everyone else as well.
It is good that you are optimistic, I am, however you also need to ground your rainbow and unicorn dreams in reality and have a backup plan. Right now things look amazing and bright but what happens if that changes? That is why I always say,
"Hope for the best, plan for the worst."
What you are doing is akin to shooting an approach with out even bothering to look at or brief the missed approach. Sure it will most likely work out for you, but the one time it doesn't it can be a disaster and it only takes one mistake to end your life in this job. With stakes like that it is foolish not to plan for the worst. Your career is exactly the same and you based your yes vote on the idea that nothing can possibly go wrong and that you'll be out of PSA quickly (which would likely happen regardless of yes or no because of the
projected hiring) and that your vote exists in a vacuum. Sadly it doesn't.
Your trust of management is also interesting too. It's like accepting an alternate or a fuel load on a release with out actually checking it yourself. "Well the dispatcher said it would be ok and it will work out, so that must be true." Yeah I'm sure the dispatcher has every intention of making it a safe flight, but they make mistakes too and don't always choose the best alternate. You as the pilot must look at the big picture and decide if that is the best move instead of blindly following what the dispatcher says.
That goes for your career as well. Start thinking for yourself and stop blindly following what management or ALPA tells you. Look at the industry trends, learn the industries history and realize so much of this stuff has been seen before and happened before. Start thinking about how your actions will not only affect you but others around you too who all have the same responsibilities that you do. Also realize that how you vote will affect you many years down the line because of the slow pace of contract negotiations.
Instead of putting an end to whipsaw and building a platform on which all regional pilots could start improving their lives, you cut the legs out from a group that was in a more dire situation then yourself for what amounts to a paltry gain.
Contract improvements for regional pilots means that mainline doesn't feel the pressure to try and match the cost gap. If regionals become too expensive then more of the flying goes to mainline which is where we all want it anyways (DC-9s used to do CRJ-900 flying). Finally if you want to be selfish, consider what would happen if you got stuck at a regional, for whatever reason, for your career. Could you retire at PSA if you had to?
It is great to make it to a mainline, but once you are there you feel the constant threat of regional airlines eroding your scope. It is time to put an end to that and that is done through contract improvements, not concessions.
Maybe one day, when you have spent some time in the industry, you will realize the folly of your vote. Based on what you have written it appears you are pretty much straight out of flight school with no real experience.
Originally Posted by
PeopleMover90
I can't argue with the doom and gloom mentality. We are being built to become a larger regional airline, with greater presence and new look. You'll see more of this past merger close and announcements for us.
With what pilots? Where are you going to find the manpower to staff it? That isn't doom and gloom, that's reality and if anything it's awesome that regionals are probably going to collapse because of a lack of staffing.
Why are you so excited to build a bigger regional airline anyways?