Not saying you are, but I've heard the points you referenced (and many more in my short time here) as to why we shouldn't expect more. In fact I was informed by a capt I flew with that doing better than C2012 (which was incredibly awesome he assured me) was not (humanly) possible. So do I think a negotiator will be able to pull off what I said in my prior post? Do I think I could? No to both. They're much smarter in their speciality than I could ever be. As to working the numbers against management's lawyers and getting us a PWA deserving of a Disney movie showing how they overcame incredible challenges and beat the odds, well let's just say I've had my expectations effectively managed downward. It only took one contract to bring me in line. I'm the defeatist with his backpack full of humble.