It is one thing to advocate for concessions and help management. Everyone is entitled to their viewpoint.
So anyone who doesn't gleefully promote a "burn down the house/full pay to the last day/liquidation, not humiliation!" (I've seen and heard all of them) is an "advocate for concessions and helping management"????
It is quite another to accept DALPA flight pay loss and work against our cause carrying water for management without your name attached.
Evidence? I can claim that the moon is made of green cheese, but I better have a slice of it to show you. Most guys on here are just guys who take an interest in their career and find this forum more congenial and less toxic than others--such as the DALPA forum that posts such as yours (and Buzz's equally toxic counterposts) helped render inconsequential.
While I do not know who is who, I fear many of those working against a historic 2015 are here and accept union flight pay loss. They also were instrumental in selling C2012 with empty threats, empty promises and false assumptions.
I agree that the C2012 sell job was over the top. That said I voted for it, and would again. It was a good--not great--agreement. If I had a crystal ball I would know how to bet at the horse races. I don't, and given lots of things, I would vote for it again.
We cannot fail again.
We didn't. DALPA has done a great job getting us lots of incremental gains compounded on top of each other. You attack Sailing's posts, but he is spot on. Work rules, pay and retirement contributions are all far, far improved from our lowest points 8-9 years ago. What has the APA accomplished? Very little, until recently. USAPA? What a joke.
Not buying the 717s. The ink was dry as usual. The planes were purchased. There was no other option
.
Probably a bit of an oversell on DALPA's part. But do you think voting No would have given us a markedly improved contract? I don't.
We gave up a 2 hour ALV increase, changing the summer calendar and 99 hours for reserves for nothing.
For nothing? Are you kidding me? Do you even read the contract or know what is in it? How about a permanent increase to the reserve guarantee? How about vacation, mil leave, etc, applying toward when a reserve is full for the month? That alone was a huge quality of life improvement--one that C2K never had, nor ever envisioned.
If these 2 can't get on board when management is returning $2.75 billion to the shareholders in a second round.....
Like most pilots, you don't realize that profits are, by definition, the property of the shareholders. That is why Apple (beloved by many mgmt and DALPA-bashers) has $130 BILLION dollars in cash just sitting there--not one penny of it is going to the employees. Where is the hate? Microsoft had a $54 billion hoard a few years ago and actually told the employees that they (the employees) had to pay more for health care because "Microsoft couldn't afford it." When the $54 billion was brought up, their CEO (Steve Ballmer at the time) replied, "that's not your money, that's the shareholders' money." Microsoft then proceeded to get rid of all of the cash with a special one time dividend and stock buyback--none of it went to the employees. While that is cold, heartless, and something that I do NOT embrace, remember that next time you accuse DALPA of a "sellout" because mgmt allocated cash to the shareholders and not us. Any money we get from the company has to be strongly wrested from mgmt. They and the shareholders that they represent don't just hand it over because an internet message board loudly proclaims that they are suppose to. Given that, I think our DALPA negotiators have done a great job the past few years, one relatively small gain at a time, many times, each compounded on top of each.
That doesn't mean that I want profit sharing reduced, but management is "giving" anything away with dividends and stock buybacks. The shareholders, represented by the BOD are entitled to it, if they wish in that form.
Their harm to the Delta pilots is severe. They are connected and influential.
I think I know who Sailing is. He isn't "connected" or "influential." While I find some of his posts a bit haughty, I also read that he just stays engaged, informed, and doesn't pull factoids out of his derriere to support the quickly-forgotten argument of the moment.
Management's top 3 are:
Pay Banding
Reducing Profit sharing
Sick leave
Source? Since we just negotiated to wrest back our sick leave into it's current and decent form from the BK trashing it took, I think it would be mighty astounding for mgmt to try and take it back down a notch or two.
You may be right on the other two, but just because they propose it doesn't mean much, especially in this huge profit era.
Sailing and Tsquare will be selling full time that concessions in these areas are wins!!
There is no reason in the world to make concessions in this environment.
I disagree with your first statement. I and everyone else on this seniority list agree with the second.
The Delta pilots have made over $15 billion in life changing concessions and counting.
Even if your number is correct, have you forgotten to add back all the gains? And for what it's worth, while the C2K pay rates were great, you can have the work rules. Our work rules are much better now. Or do you want...
Reserves are guaranteed a Duty Period Minimum of 2 hours, and other than trip and duty rigs that may or may not mean anything, NOTHING else--no Average Daily Guarantee, no Duty Period Average.
No Average Daily Guarantee at all.
No Vacation Slide. By God, every vacation will start on Sunday, end on Saturday, and you are going to like it.
No Bidding for CQ. You will go to CQ when the company, not the pilot, says. You can be #1 and by God if the company wants to schedule you for back to back A period sims, which you hate, then guess what That is what you get. (Happened to me many times pre-bidding for CQ, hasn't happened yet since).
Our concessionary contract is no longer necessary.
I agree--and we don't have much of one any more. It is far far better than what it was 8-9 years ago. It is not the same contract by a light year. That said we still have a ways to go on the pay side, though lately I've flown with a lot of guys recently saying something like "I was pleasantly surprised by my 2013 W2."
We do not want to kill the golden goose. We simply want a fair agreement that recognizes our sacrifices and our contributions.
I can agree with you there. I disagree with your method. You seem to think that constant conflict, automatically voting No on anything, and publicly insulting the very guys who are putting their lives on hold for a couple of years on all of our behalf is somehow effective. The APA and USAPAs of the world show that that is not necessarily the case.
After some intellectual "waffling" I am "all in" in favor of DALPA's current approach, because it currently
is working. That is due in part to a good management team that wants to get along and prosper together.
I realize that these conditions won't always exist, and there most likely
will be a time to think of taking very hard-nosed, threatening positions. I just don't think it necessary to do so now, as long as keep getting contractual improvements year after year, as we have ever since the merger, and even slightly prior to that.