Originally Posted by
alfaromeo
So, now we enter the silly season. It is amazing how you try to have a discussion based on facts and then it turns to insanity.
Listen, my friend, if you are looking for sympathy over recent events I can tell you that you are knocking on the wrong door. I would love to change the past but unfortunately that is not the way the world really works.
This is how it really works. In bankruptcy (which occurred in 2005-2007 if you can't remember that far back) we gave four years of non-pension concessions that averaged $150 million per year. 4 times 150 is $600 million. Are you keeping up so far? The pension is technically not a negotiated concession because there is no way to negotiate to terminate a defined benefit plan but let's just call that a concession to keep you from blowing your head apart. That was $900 million. Now in my calculator $900 million plus $600 million is $1.5 billion.
Returns. We got a $2.1 billion claim that netted pilots around $1.35 billion when it was sold. We got $650 million cash. Pull out your calculator and add those two and you should get $2.0 billion.
Now is $2.0 billion more than $1.5 billion? Yes or no?
So those are the facts. Take your self centered pity somewhere else because it won't work on me. No spin, just the real world. Now we can return to the usual silliness because I guess we have had enough of the real world for now.
Wake up, the world does not give a crap about what you think you are owed. No one cares, least of all me. If you let that form the basis of how you approach a business negotiation, you might as well surrender right now. You are really a sorry sight, quit feeling sorry for yourself, there are much worse things that can happen than losing a little money.
Not looking for sympathy.... or to be lectured by a condescending @sshole.
I think I understand pretty well where you're coming from. You see bankruptcy as a reset for our profession. You have a fairly high level of expertise in analyzing corporate financials. You've even done some consulting. Just enough stuff so that you tend to see things from the perspective of a CFO... a bean counter.
In our case, you apparently have a lot more concern for the cost side of the business equation than you do for the value of a highly trained, highly experienced, sharp individual in the cockpit. That kind of lack of perspective and poor judgment is one of the reasons why CFO's don't always make the best CEO's. Bean counters are great at what they do... crunching numbers... an important part of the equation. Just not the WHOLE equation.
As for your "analysis" of our concessions... well... it's flawed. This isn't 2007. It's 2014. You are
conveniently leaving out 6 years (2008-2014). Try including the difference between our pay in those years and what our pay would be inflation adjusted from 2004. Still think we aren't at a significant deficit? Oh that's right... you view bankruptcy as a reset. You don't think pilots can or should be paid that much in the first place. Keeping costs low is the most important priority. You're a bean counter first and foremost. And the really scary part? You're a bean counter that could be helping to determine our strategic plan for C2015!
And just to bring it back to the "real world"... none of the above diminishes the one thing on which you and I agree: There are much worse things in life that can happen than losing money.