Originally Posted by
scambo1
You're closing in on the ballpark. However, you're more optimistic than me about an early agreement. I agree that getting more FOs close to the 415c should be a goal. When do we start talking work rules, vacation and medical?
I'm not that optimistic about an early agreement, it was purely hypothetical... I think the company 'might' have some incentive to negotiate well, but probably not to the extent we will require(Look at the glacial pace of the FDX negotiations.... Enjoy your time off my cargo betheren!)
Work rules, vaca, and medical definitely need their own "time".... Maybe later, we are still 8 months from openers after all, and final survey guidance still has to be determined..... Participate in the upcoming webinars Aug. 4 and 6! <--- Shameless ALPA plug
Originally Posted by
DAL 88 Driver
I don't see any reason to "hide" anything from other employee groups. The other employee groups didn't take anything like the level of cuts we took. And they've made a lot more progress than we have toward restoration of the cuts they did take. I know Delta management loves to make us out to be the bad guys and pit the other employees against us (saw it first hand in BK), but I don't think we need to let that intimidate us. IMO it should not be a consideration for us.
I might agree to something like that (6.5% early/9.5% on amendable). You do realize that in order to achieve anything like that you would have to open higher, right?
And I don't think 4%/4% is quite enough. Not given the enormous sacrifices we've all made over the past decade and the fact that even your suggested "6.5% early/9.5% on amendable" still leaves us at approximately a 21% CUT in buying power over our 2004/C2K rates.
In other words, I could probably be persuaded to vote for full restoration of the actual 2004 rates (unadjusted for inflation) by day one but I need to see something that at least makes some decent progress towards restoring our buying power over the rest of the contract. 4% is barely ahead of published inflation and may not even be enough to keep up with the true increase in cost of living.
I'm encouraged that you're at least thinking along these lines, but I'm also jaded enough to be very skeptical that actual DALPA negotiators would open with something that would be enough to result in a negotiated result like you suggest.
As for the 401k... Again, I'd rather see the increase to the rates. I think our retirement setup is already very good and I am happy with it. Given the enormous sacrifice/loss in value with the termination of the pension, I don't mind seeing our retirement benefit increased. (More is always better, right?
) But I'd rather see it increased via a higher W2 resulting in more company contribution dollars going into the DPSP. I really do not care what the other employees think. That is completely irrelevant... they could have applied for a pilot position at Delta Air Lines if they were qualified and wanted the job and the responsibility.
I don't think we have to hide it, but it benefits us and not because we aren't worth it as standalone, but because it is a weakness of our adversary at the table. It IS a factor they consider, whether we care or not. I fully believe if other employee groups cared enough about themselves then they would organize, but that's here nor there. The company does at all costs want to avoid unionization of the other groups, so when we approach them we should be willing to "help" them hide whatever they need.....AT A PRICE. Just business, not personal. It is a cost factor to them, and therefore it DOES affect us, no matter how much we think otherwise.
Use their weak spot to exploit a gain for ourselves! It might cost $1.12 to get $1.00 of value for a per diem because of the Company desire to keep FA's in the same window, but instead, we ask for $1.10 worth of vacation for $1.00 because FA's won't see it. We end up with a 10% more value per dollar of negotiating leverage and the company saves $0.02 per dollar... Everyone wins....well everyone that is at the table anyway!
the 4/4 was merely a hypothetical, I think we are all smart enough to do the math and decide for ourselves (I want more), but you are right, you and the "pre-BK" generation have contributed dang near a 7 digit number to survival..... Time to compensate. A 14% PS plus a 1%/1% above avg. inflation would be a dent into that....At least I think so, Sorry 80!
It is really great to see a rational, friendly dialog on issues.... It's annoying to constantly see the T/Alan/Carl fights. I'm all for idea-based discussions, thank you gents!