Whether any of us has an issue with it is immaterial. The reality is that it's just never done that way. You can talk conceptually all you want, but negotiations don't begin until there's an official exchange of openers. Those openers are very specific and very, very detailed. It is from those opening points where both sides must move toward the opposition or you have bad faith negotiations. If one side ever came for the exchange of openers with a "conceptual opener", the other side would almost certainly get up and say, " give us a call when you're ready to negotiate and be held accountable to an opening position."

But let's say for the sake of argument that this most unusual "conceptual" opener of ours really was accepted by management. At some point, you actually have to ask for what you want in specific detail. Once that happens, why not release it to the pilots? What's the harm? What's our union afraid of? Even after TA2012 turned into Contract 2012, still no idea of what we specifically asked for. I know you're OK with that, but many of us are not. As I've said earlier, it's never been done in my personal history of 35 years in ALPA. Why now?

Putting flesh on bones would never be considered bad faith. Only moving negatively away from your opening position. That's why nobody would allow you to show up without a detailed opening position so specific movement could be measured.

Carl