Originally Posted by
Whalefr8
Same question to you. What are we in negotiations for? What are we "giving up" in those negotiations? What is the union stance? Have they really given anything up? Did we lose money or hours? Did the time away from home increase? It takes two parties to negotiate.
The union leadership can blab all it wants but unless the company is blabbing back the negotiation is not taking place.
If there are LOAs that have done NOTHING for the group as a whole then why were they voted in? An LOA still gets a vote by the crewmembers right? It is the union leaders attempt to engage the crewmembers. A NO vote actually gives the leaders the power to go back to the company and ask for more. Your mention of an LOA that does nothing points the finger at the crewmembers, not the leadership or LOA negotiators.
Or perhaps you do not understand the process? As crewmembers we empower the leadership by voting no on an LOA or a CBA TA!
During every roadshow for our previous CBAs I asked the negotiators and MEC members "are you voting for this LOA?" Surprisingly their answer was often no. I voted likewise.
Part of negotiation is public support for what you have negotiated. It is a tactic to get more from the company 'Well Mr Cato - we will come out an support this LOA or TA this CBA if you give us a few more dollars an hour" all the while knowing (or hoping) that the crewmembers vote it down. It is a TACTIC, not a position. As crewmembers we need to be smarter than this. we need to understand the process and our role in the process. Your comment on the LOA shows that perhaps you do not understand that.
Hi Whale-
I am a new hire. Completed training in MIA and waiting for IOE. I was a voting member of my previous airlines MEC and dealt with every issue you could imagine from sick time issues to merging (or attempting to) two airlines. I spent a little over seven years there.
I want to elaborate a little on the constant negotiations. The union, Exco and negotiating team, is always negotiating. The company will come and say what do you think about XYZ and the union has to meet and speak in the interest of the pilot group (or so we hope). Not everything that the union approaches the company about or visa versa comes out to pilot vote or is even really considered by the union but you have to entertain everything. I am certain talks about the instructors are always ongoing as are crew meals and many other things. Beyond that either party can ask to enter into new contract negotiations but is usually most effective with the company realizes the situation be it any airline.
So in my opinion, yes we are always in negotiations. This is why if we want more pay for working extra days then we need to not pick them up now, same goes for outbasing. Every time we take a hotel we shouldn't or a crew meal we shouldn't if the company is smart they mark it down so that when we are talking specific things in the future they can say well we only got 30 complaints over the last so many days on a specific issue. I am not saying do or don't do something but that if we want change it starts with us, the line pilots. The Exco, stewards, negotiating committee work for US!...
I don't know enough about the current Exco or other guys running but from initial things I have heard (if true) there are guys that really shouldn't be in leadership positions from both groups.
Also for what it is worth I am 30 and would like to make this my final airline. That being said I will not stay here if the next contract doesn't have work rules and pay that is closer to industry standard (what that will be in a year or more who knows). Not to mention retirement, sick time and training pay BS. No one should be penalized for any of those things on their paycheck.
V/R-
Nick