Originally Posted by
Sink r8
No one hates 2007 hires. Only the argument that we need to go back to the system we all worked under at the time they were hired. And I don't think anyone is trying to design a system where we "get back" at 2007 guys, or you.
I think we're all trying to develop a system that's fair, and ordering flying by seniority, provided no one has to shoulder the entire load, is fair. I think most people are coming into this discussion from a perspective of trying to make things better for all pilots, including junior captains (I really mean it).
I get the impression you're coming at this from the perspective that everyone needs to fly based on RAW scores, by restricting the size of RAW buckets, so that senior guys don't get to pass on anything. My apologies if I'm mis-representing your viewpoint, but that's the theme I'm getting out of your arguments: it's not fair for a senior guy to "escape" a trip, because back when you started, they couldn't.
Again let me reemphasize something here... this was your earlier post...
Originally Posted by
Sink r8
Which made a new hire just as much of a prince or a peasant as anyone else, and so it was that ftb and other newhires got to think of themselves as equally entitled to flying as someone who HAD been furloughed, HAD lost the game of LOW/HIGH yellows when it was their turn, but now couldn't use their seniority at all to compete for flying anymore. We got shafted, but their perspective on this matter was based on the then-existing system of 2007.
So, to the newhires, past dues that went unrewarded went completely unnoticed.
When we finally designed and implemented something better, they 2007 guys cry bitter tears over the fact that there is LITTLE seniority bias to the Reserve system (emphasis on "little"), and they can't bear the thought of losing the artificial equality they had come to live under, never mind that it was an accident of a history they didn't share in. They sure don't mind the fact that a junior guy flies a trip they don't want, but they can't bear the idea of a senior guy sitting a little longer in a different raw bucket. It messes up their brains, this slightly unequal screw-job, even though it is entirely appropriate, and STILL fails to properly pay us back.
Let's focus on two 1991 PMDAL hires sitting around 5000 or so on the seniority list and both sitting reserve on ATL 88 A.
Under the bucket system the guy one number junior to the other could fly the entire month before the guy one number senior flies at all. Under the bucket system with ALV+15, there is a good chance no limit will be hit as you once mentioned that under the old seniority system the junior guy would fill up and go home the rest of the month.
I think both of these guys paid their dues and I don't think that is a good system for one of them. I think a fairer system is an even split, junior guy flies first. Now I know seniority only is "how we used to do it" but "how we used to do it" is a closed shop way of doing things and not necessarily best.
What I want is what is better for more pilots rather than fewer.
Originally Posted by
Sink r8
ftb's problem isn't that he got screwed when he was junior (he didn't), is that he has too little respect for those of us that got screwed when we were junior AND when we were more senior.
I never got screwed on reserve, I've always been senior reserve. And I still don't like the system.
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