We'll never know, will we?

As to our experts, lobbyists, politically connected folks - their careers aren't harmed by this legislation, so they might have a different perspective. Threaten them with a comparable pay loss and see how hard they want to fight then.

(As a side note, I am also an AOPA member, and it sure is a contrast, watching the war being fought over user fees. Another "done deal" from Marion Blakey, but AOPA apperently hasn't got the word.....)

I'll give you MY perspective - you want to talk about leadership, let's talk leadership. Let's talk about the power of symbolism. About leaders who are willing to get down to the troop level and demonstrate that we're all in this together.

ALL Dave would have to do is say, "Guys I know this is a kick in the crotch. Let's find some ways to lessen the blow. How about a commitee of 5 F/O's and 5 captains who can meet and come up with ways to spread the wealth a little." Not much, maybe, but at least an acknowledgement that he represents ALL of us, not the widebody captains.

How about all the MEC telling us, in writing, what they plan to do at sixty. "I voted for this but I do not intend to profit from it." Again, symbolism.

And Redeye, this ain't the Navy, and we don't need an officer corps, thank you. That sh!t'll work on you when you're 22 but not now.

Speaking of which, you keep saying things like, "Is this your first airline?" or whether I've been in leadership (yes) or in the military (barely). So let me ask you one: Were you ever an F/O with kids? Did your wife stay home to raise them? How seriously would you want your union to take it if your upgrade was going to be delayed? Would you want them to go nuclear? Or just take the word of the inside-the-beltway professionals and cave like a house of cards, hoping for a few crumbs from the table of the congress?

Think of how hard you, Pappa Bear with some cubs at home depending on you, would have fought for $3150 a month....