Originally Posted by
tom11011
I was looking at this from the context of the last 20 years though. From that perspective, there hasn't been much real gain in regional pilot wealth. I'm not sure who's fault that is.
Agreed on that front. I reference in another thread though, pre 9/11 while the legacies were increasing in CBA quality, some of the regionals were as well. Although purely on a relative scale of course. ASA, ACA, COMAIR, AWAC specifically. Mesaba, BIZEX, and Eagle were good (AGAIN, relative) as well. Commutair, for being a 19/B1900 operator had better pay than MESA and Great Lakes, for the equipment type.
Originally Posted by
deltajuliet
Pilots only accept bad conditions at the regional level for the major/legacy carrot.
Not necessarily true. Post 9/11, regional pilots took concessions ACA, COMAIR, and AWAC.
Originally Posted by
deltajuliet
% of regional pilots would refuse concessions once they've made it to the big time, especially in light of what they just put up with for 4-12 years.
We hope that's true, I believe it is. But then again, pilots have proven themselves to be selfish "scope is a junior guy's problem, IT'S ALL ABOUT ME AND MY WIDE BODY SEAT!!!!!", as well as a have short memory.
Originally Posted by
deltajuliet
for contracts around 2000, I've heard a lot about how good they were. Something like a 777 Captain making $300+ per hour unadjusted for inflation. Is that true?
UAL 777 CA on DOS 2000, 270.35/hr. End of the CBA had it gone that far (2003 or 2004), 316.45/hr
DAL 777 CA on DOS, 268.01/hr, 2004 would have seen 319.61/hr
Originally Posted by
deltajuliet
I appreciate your historical knowledge of the subject, and I'd love to hear more details about how things were then and what we're still fighting 15 years later to get back.
On a relative scale, the better regional CBA's of the late 90's/2000/2001 that were considered "good" (ASA, AWC, ACA, COMAIR) were VERY GOOD compared a short time before. Where when the RJ's were first coming on line, they were STILL doing it at turbo prop wages and turbo prop workrules for a while. It made the RJ job not such a bad place to work, ON A RELATIVE SCALE. Albeit, that was a VERY SHORT window that occurred. One of my previous employers, a CRJ CA could pull 100K simply though CAB work rule manipulation and still have 14 days off. A CRJ FO could pull 50-60. AGAIN, that's the 2000-2001 era. Adjust that for inflation.
Originally Posted by
deltajuliet
also wonder whether mainline pilots care about scope. If they aggressively recapture it, management will say, "Okay, but then you're not getting any kind of raise." The pilots already there know they have a job
In the past, see above. It was historically give up for pay, DB plans that NEVER came to fruition, wide body orders that never arrived, whatever.
One interesting/fantasy land scenario is this; The regional management FINALLY decides to sack up and tell their legacy partners that they simply can't operate on existing agreements, they have to be paid more to provide the regional feed. Now, when the legacy pilots CBA's come up for talks, the legacy management is going to pull the card of "our sourcing costs (regional operators) are going up, costing us more money. THEREFORE, there's less money to give YOU on a new contract".
In typical MBA/airline management fashion and typical pilot mentality, can you see the ramifications of this happening? In other words "because you lowly regional pilots are costing too much you're affecting MY ability to get paid more money yada yada yade....." It's management 101, pit employees against each other.
Originally Posted by
deltajuliet
would they fight for the regional pilots at their own expense? The 55+ year olds want to pad their retirements, the guys just getting hired now want to make up for lost time, and the middle aged guys in between may or may not care. Of course there will be some compassionate and empathetic towards their regional brothers and sisters, but I question if that's a significant percentage.
Again, good points. Hopefully the scope being blown open (although forced via BK) is STILL fresh in the minds of the pilots. And with the standard 50-60% of new hires at legacies being made up of civilian/regional pilots, scope will remain a forefront issue.
Time will tell.