Are we going to turn this into mil vs civilian thread? WM, are you suggesting that I'm a schitty pilot because I flew for the USAF? I agree with many things you say on this board, but you lose credibility when you start giving absolutes. Let's be honest. There are poor sticks that grew up on both sides of the fence. All are familiar with the lukewaffa. Let's not forget our highest avoidance bids are straight civilian. The previous high avoidance bid did a nose dive in LGA (I'm glad no one was hurt). Is it just the civilian male pilots that are the best damned stick known to man? How's the view from up there?