Originally Posted by
JamesNoBrakes
This could also be done by having no seniority system at all, and all positions, transitions to different aircraft, including CA, are bid by applying, both internally and externally. Longevity pay and seniority would only come up when talking about the same position in the same type. When you are hired as an FO for an ERJ, you are an FO for an ERJ and not "counting" on any sort of automatic upgrade, ever. When the company needs people to "upgrade", they open the applications for CAs, people apply, they take the highest qualified. With type and company experience, most may come from within, but a few external CA types with the appropriate type rating may apply as well. What this would do is completely destroy the seniority system and allow the business to work like most other businesses do. In most places, not all, but most, you don't just assume one day you'll be "appointed" as a manager or the next highest position just because you have a great personality and smile and put in some time. Companies and businesses don't care how great you think you are. This also separates out the non-motivated or poor performing FOs that are not motivated to, capable of, or interested in upgrading.
If this happened, IMO, pay would have to go up to retain and experience, the most important thing, would be transferable (in other words, you don't start out as a lowly FO at company B after being a CA at company A). You apply for the position that is open. This is the worst thing about the system. You can't get at the top of your game like in most businesses and get a salary that is at least somewhat representative of your experience and qualifications when you move positions. Right now, airlines have no incentive to pay pilots for their experience, because the system locks them in back at zero every time.
The system you're suggesting exists and probably works fine for a corporate flight department. They are generally a small group of pilots and have collateral duties which separate them out. This business (airlines) is like no other business. The model you are suggesting will not work here. We have a vast number of individual who predominantly have the same skill set. We are all ATPs.
What would the metric for promotion be? If the metric is experience, then generally speaking that equates to seniority. If the metric is competency, then how do you define it? Shoots a single engine ILS to minimums within ATP standards? We all do that. Shows up to work on time? You will not last at an airline if you are not reliable. Maintains a high state of physical readiness? Most of us have a 1st Class Medical. Looks great in uniform? Maybe you can weed a few applicants out here
, but for the most part I think pilots are squared away. Who would evaluate the pilots on their performance? Who would write the evaluations? The Chief Pilot in SLC has over 300 pilots that report to him. How is going to know which FO is ready for upgrade? I think this is why the current seniority based metric works tremendously well.
To your second point, I do not believe MOST pilots assume that just because they have the seniority number they are entitled to the left seat. IMO we recognize that the seniority number makes the opportunity for upgrade available, but it still has to be earned. Earned through study, discipline, experience, and of course testing. There are no gimmes in this industry. We work for everything.
We are saying some of the same things. A pilot should not have to start at pay level 0 because he chose to move to a better (subjective) company. However, I don't think that the pilot who was just about to upgrade should be penalized because that pilot with the higher seniority made a lateral move. The pilot who moved goes to the bottom of the list for the purpose of upgrade. That is the consequence of his decision to move.