Originally Posted by
SMACFUM
Is there an official source citing this policy?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes, the official source is ALPA and CAPA.
Originally Posted by
TheFly
He speaks the Truth. ALPA members got the email though. Somebody already posted it on APC…search it.
ALPA and CAPA got an email because it is those entities that make KCM happen. Merry Christmas.
Originally Posted by
Squallrider
I understand Expressjet wanting ons list but what does that bring to the slywest people? Expressjet is a sinking ship with mostly 50 seater aircraft with continuous shrinking and an apparent toxic corporate culture. One list would just mean a worse upgrade and probably QOL over what we have now
Toxic corporate culture? We have the same management, the same people who make the business decisions. Before then, we were very content. But to answer your question, to get rid of the whipsaw. Why should we be ok with management pitting its employees against each other in order to suppress compensation? Its not right. This isn't competing against a separate corporate entity like Mesa or RAH. This is our management making us compete against each other before we compete against the rest of the industry. We are like animals being thrown into a pit to fight to the death when we should be working together to make money for our shareholders.
Originally Posted by
skypilot35
Man you are definitely consistent with the union talk, I'll give you that. I do not think consolidating the regional seniority list has to be a
union action. In fact I think as soon as you mention union and consolidation in the same sentence, the next thing that comes out of people's mouths is
Railway Labor Act. The unions cannot, by law, play a functional role in the consolidation. But if WE, as an industry, were to petition for it then perhaps it could happen. Obviously, thousands of variables (and personalities) involved but I think it could happen. It
cannot happen with a union.
We're not talking about one list for just ExpressJet and Skywest. We are talking about one list across the entire regional pilot group. The benefits to having one list far outweigh the detractors. Here are a few reasons why:
1) If you leave your current regional airline to fly for another regional airline
you start at the bottom of the list and at the
bottom of the pay-scale.
2) If you're a commuter your non-rev benefits are also greatly diminished.
You are at the bottom of the turd bowl again.
3) The
individual list at various companies strongly skews the balance of power to the side of management. For example, what incentive does AAG have to keep Envoy pilots happy? They are one of the more senior pilot groups (more expensive). Why would AAG award them contracts to fly when there are cheaper pilot groups?
One list, with a flat pay-scale and flat benefits package, would make contracts more about performance and less about compensation. It eliminates the whipsaw that we are all currently witnessing. If the contracts were about performance rather than undercutting the bid, I think most pilots could get behind that.
You concern about the upgrade times is understandable, but one list would not put someone with a higher seniority number in front of you for upgrade. The seniority number (call it an experience number) is for pay and benefits. For example, let's say Nevets decides he's fed up with ExpressJet. He leaves for Compass. Nevets is an experienced Captain with 15 years of seniority (hypothetical). The pay-scale for a 15 year Captain at ExpressJet is $99 (APC). The pay-scale for a 15 year FO at Compass is $44. Nevets would be at the top of the FO pay-scale. His seniority number (experience) is for pay and benefits only. His date of hire at Compass would be his number for upgrade. He still took a massive pay cut but he's not forced to start at $25 and he keeps his benefits. This type of seniority system would even out the playing field between companies.
The
current seniority system does nothing but encourage the ruthless tactics employed by our individual management groups.
Now cue all the naysayers
!
I never said it had to be a union action. But in order for pilot groups to talk collectively about something like this, they need to be unionized. In other words, the pilot leaders have to have the legitimacy of an NMB approved collective bargaining agent voted in amongst its members in order to say that they can speak for their pilot group. Otherwise, you have 18,000 individual voices. It's already hard enough with 20 voices. There is more power in lobbying when you have all leaders of all regionals being able to speak for their respective pilot groups than with individual pilots trying to do it when only less than 5% will take the time to actually write an email, much less walk the halls of Congress, if that's the strategy for one list. Which isn't the only path, by the way.
I like your idea with one list though. Its a good starting point.
Originally Posted by
skypilot35
No, Nevets and I have had this discussion in the past. We are referring to a single list across the regional industry. He thinks the only way to do it is with a union, but as I pointed out before the current labor laws prohibits airline unions from taking this kind of action. It does not prohibit individuals petitioning congress.
This is not correct. Nothing in law prohibits a single seniority list. The obstacle, other than pilots themselves as seen by your discussion here, is management agreeing to it.