Originally Posted by
JoeyMeatballs
I don't know, the last SWA plane I junpseated on and AA plane where I was riding In the back, they were dirty. I guess it was coincidental. I don't do much traveling to be honest.
I want DAL Airbus rates, id take UAL rates, I certainly wouldn't leave here if we got Alaska rates.
Alaska rates with 12-16% DC plan and a much higher min day, sure I'd probably vote yes.
If your initial goal is JB rates, you are going to be hugely disapointed in what the TA will look like.
Talking to some guys, I'm almost shocked at how little they value themselves.........
Seems like it's a cultural thing,almost like the "cheap product" makes some people feel inadequate or makes them feel they don't deserve to be paid as much as the "classy Legacy". The same Legacy that goes in and out of bankruptcy every few years.
Who said anything about an initial goal? I would expect the union's initial negotiating position will be pie in the sky asks, and the company position will be "cost neutral" or some such nonsense. I never suggested anything like starting out asking for JB rates.
I was merely responding to a rumor that's apparently floating around. The rumor was if a TA was presented with JB/Alaska rates on or near the amendable (see what I did there gonyon?
) date, would you vote for it?
I typically fly with junior captains and they for the most part seem to share your "Delta or bust" mentality when it comes to negotiations. Nothing wrong with that, but I think you may end up being the one(s) who are going to be hugely disappointed in what the TA will look like.
I'm certainly no defeatist, just a realist. Off the top of my head I can't think of or cite a single airline contract that contained 20+% pay gains on date of signing without a single concession - though I'm definitely not an airline contract history buff. Meanwhile, some here at Spirit are expecting in the neighborhood of 40% pay gains, massive improvement to retirement, significant work rule improvements and all while not making a single concession. Just look at what AA is going through right now - they're almost certainly going to have several concessions rammed down their throats just to get a 23% gain. And they're a legitimate Delta peer, not a relatively tiny up and comer like us. These things are a marathon, not a sprint. I don't think it's realistic to expect our contract to be brought up to par with fully mature, 50 or 60 year old agreements in a single negotiating cycle.
Anyway, it's nice to be in the position we're in: we know we're going to see big improvements, it's only a matter of degree, and in what areas. This will be the fifth contract vote of my career, I'm hoping I finally get a TA I can vote yes on. Good luck to us all.