Originally Posted by StinkyFinger

Who said anything about an initial goal? I would expect the union's initial negotiating position will be pie in the sky asks, and the company position will be "cost neutral" or some such nonsense. I never suggested anything like starting out asking for JB rates.

I was merely responding to a rumor that's apparently floating around. The rumor was if a TA was presented with JB/Alaska rates on or near the amendable (see what I did there gonyon? ) date, would you vote for it?

I typically fly with junior captains and they for the most part seem to share your "Delta or bust" mentality when it comes to negotiations. Nothing wrong with that, but I think you may end up being the one(s) who are going to be hugely disappointed in what the TA will look like.

I'm certainly no defeatist, just a realist. Off the top of my head I can't think of or cite a single airline contract that contained 20+% pay gains on date of signing without a single concession - though I'm definitely not an airline contract history buff. Meanwhile, some here at Spirit are expecting in the neighborhood of 40% pay gains, massive improvement to retirement, significant work rule improvements and all while not making a single concession. Just look at what AA is going through right now - they're almost certainly going to have several concessions rammed down their throats just to get a 23% gain. And they're a legitimate Delta peer, not a relatively tiny up and comer like us. These things are a marathon, not a sprint. I don't think it's realistic to expect our contract to be brought up to par with fully mature, 50 or 60 year old agreements in a single negotiating cycle.

Anyway, it's nice to be in the position we're in: we know we're going to see big improvements, it's only a matter of degree, and in what areas. This will be the fifth contract vote of my career, I'm hoping I finally get a TA I can vote yes on. Good luck to us all.