Originally Posted by
NedsKid
PBS is a concession. Every airline that has PBS had it forced on them in bankruptcy. I think that just about covers PBS.
You're advocating for taking a pay cut every year. If my $ buys me less as a 12 year CA than it did the first year I upgraded, that's a pay cut, and not a contract I’m going to advocate for.
High hourly rates are designed by management to distract short-sighted pilots from the big picture. If you want to brag about a # on a forum in some machismo ‘unit measuring contest’, go for the hourly rate. That’s what’s going on it
this thread. There's a reason AA is willing to offer industry leading hourly rates to their pilots (in a cost neutral contract, BTW) - and it ain't because they want their pilots to cost more than the competition.
We should be focused on how much $ ends up in our pocket at the end of the day, not the hourly rate.
- UPS has an 81 hour min guarantee. That's a 12% increase right there compared to Spirit’s 72 hour guarantee, with no change in the hourly rate.
- Southwest has a 5:15 min day (the rough equivalent of when you convert their 6.5 'trips for pay' to hourly rates). That's a 17% increase over Spirit's 4.5 hour min duty period, again, with no change in the hourly rate.
It may sound better on this forum to say “Spirit’s top CA rate is $239/hr, and 2nd year FO is $93/hr” than to say “Spirit’s top CA rate is $185/hr, and 2nd year FO is $72/hr”, but those #’s are the exact same with the proper work rules at the lower rate (UPS and Southwest).
Oh, and PBS is a concession.
Credit to Joey for the new signature
This may be the case for senior CAs at Spirit who are closer in line of parity to Legacy CAs.
However, no way around it, FOs here are paid way less than Legacy counter parts, no matter of work rules or line bidding practices. Guys hitting 3rd year FO pay are now $40 less an hour than Legacy counterparts. Simple math would suggest that a 3rd year FO would have to credit 120 hours to match what a guarantee line would pay at a Legacy. And there is no way I would believe or accept that work rules at Spirit make it as easy to credit 120 as a Legacy carrier would be to credit guarantee.
This is the case for the entire FO pay scale and many of our Captains.
Some of our senior pilots dont agree with this math because it doesnt affect them, just guys junior to them and for some, those that need to still "pay their dues." Fact of the matter is that this airline is getting junior by the day and as a group, we need to focus on what is best for the majority of our pilots, not the 5%.
I agree the PBS is a huge concession, not something that I would vote for, and not something I think the company is going to want, but lets not act like Spirit is the only airline with work rules and it is somehow ok to have 3rd year Airbus FOs at $40 less than their counterparts and junior CAs flying 218 seat airplanes around at $130/hr