Originally Posted by
PilotCrusader
Says who? You? Put it in writing. All of that is only IF you can actually attract regular FOs, which you so far have not been able to do in any certain numbers. TSA management knew this from the start. Why do you think they came out of the gate with a "CQFO" program? The whole thing will fail if you don't get normal FOs though. How could TSA actually survive if they were paying the majority of their FOs substantially more than Envoy, the company they are supposed to be undercutting?
The company doesn't blindly accept, and/or bid on something they know that they won't be able to staff. Great business model, and if you haven't paid attention to the industry in the last 10-15 years, TSA won't do something they can't make money. Gaining flying, and then losing it all, due to staffing, makes it tough to make money.
Originally Posted by
CBreezy
Oooo!! I want to play. Okay, here goes: Envoy will cease to exist in 8 months. See? I can make unfounded conclusions based on a qualitative "analysis" of an incomplete data set and completely ignore any kind of context.
Listen old man, I know when you went to college, they didn't use calculating machines, but that doesn't give you an excuse to make outlandish statements.
Those numbers tell no story at all. In the 6 months prior to the growth announcement, TSA managed to hire over 60 FOs. While not a lot of pilots at a place like ExpressJet, this resulted in a nearly 20 growth in the pilot group; all this without any promise of growth and an upgrade that had been hovering around 1-2 years. Isn't it possible that the lack of FOs in classes is because recruiting is focusing on CQFOs? No, that couldn't be it. The company will need 100 more Captains, in less than a year, than there are pilots on the current seniority list. It also couldn't be because, as of the announcement, TSA was very overstaffed on FOs. Nope, that couldn't be it either. Confirmation bias is a strong thing. Most ignorant people are unaware of its affects on opinions.
^This. They have simply altered their recruiting tactics for now. The primary focus is getting Captains on property for the initial growth spurt, because we will already have FO's to handle the initial growth. If we get short on FO's they can use the CQFO's to handle it. It's simply being smart with their hiring. Like Breezy said, the company hired 10 ish a month for over a year with no promise of growth, no upgrades, and no attrition. Now you are saying that since we are tripling in size to stay away? Go take your meds old man.
Originally Posted by
PilotCrusader
Actually that is true: I learned weight and balance with a slide rule. Learned to navigate without a magenta line present in the aircraft, and how to calculate a precise descent without the use of an FMS; the old man could out fly one of you self entitled spoiled rotten kiddos any day
As far as the rest of your statement, perhaps 5 classes is not enough of a "data set", I could agree with that. I most likely have inserted a little "old man" 20+ years experience watching this stuff as well.
So, how about a bet? I'll bet $1000 that this little experiment fails for most.
Bring.It.On... I've flown with enough old codgers like yourself that still think they are Chuck Yeager, and just getting it on the ground is a tough task.
Originally Posted by
PilotCrusader
You would say TSA, with a 5 year contract for jets slated for retirement in 5 years, is more secure than say, Envoy, who is receiving brand new 76 seat jets and has a solid 10 year contract to back it? Ohhhhhhkayyyy. I am flying those old 145s you guys are about to get. I'd be amazed if they all last 5 years; They are falling apart just like the ATRs before we dumped them.
Or Endeavor, receiving 81 76 seat jets and paying out $80k extra to each FO over the next 4 years.
Or EVEN Mesa, who is also receiving a total fleet replacement.
Haha. Your stock went wayyy down with that prediction kiddo.
You call that a solid 10 year contract? You do realize it is an absolute sh!t sandwich, and worse than the contract TSA pilots currently work under right? You do realize Endeavor has to stay around to get that bonus right? As for Mesa… you've missed the fast upgrade. So go there and upgrade in 2-2.5 years while your buddy came here and upgrades the day he hits 3000 TT. Don't forget that if we get short, we can and WE WILL drop the TT requirements if that is what is required to staff it. In which case you upgrade in 1-1.5 years tops.
The fact that people continue to rip on this place absolutely blows my mind. Why are we such a bad place to work? Why is it so bad that this pilot group has a good relationship with management and enjoys working here? Why is it so bad that we are growing? Why do we get the ridicule for "undercutting" yet Compass gets the free pass? You do realize that they have 20 of "your" birds because they were able to do it cheaper than you!! Yet, I don't see you on the Compass forum spewing the same sh!t you do over here. Is it because they are practically mainline pilots with those new engine under wing shiny jets!?!?
Move along.