Originally Posted by
gloopy
So you think we stand to collectively benefit from it costing the better part of a quarter million dollars to get a degree and ratings?
Yes of course we (pilots) do...unless by "we" you are referring to the managers and owners of airlines (aka...your people).
How is pointing out that this is rediculous smack of "RAA" propaganda? And if I was so pro-RAA as you are lamely attempting to claim, why do I love to see the real time demise of the ACMI regional sector? Why do I want further (significant) scope restrictions on regional airlines? Why do I love to see the costs and pay at regionals go up as much as possile?
Did you say that? I can't think of anyone who would love to see the costs of regionals go up except for the management of it's competitor. You snuck the word "pay" in there but it's unlikely they can raise pay if their costs go up so that whole thing makes no sense.
I absolutely do NOT want government subsidies for flight schools. "Education" (if you can call it that in so many cases) is past the breaking point of sanity and sustainability as it is because of government subsidies. Uncle Sugar throwing more entitlement/fake stimulus money at the problem is the LAST thing we need.
Good...but that's not what you said
I'm talking about large airlines, who have a vested interest in at least having a supply of pilots, investing in experience based flight schools. You apparently don't understand that they are going to invest in flight training one way or the other.
You did say this, which is my point. Why would you say this unless you were either the owner of a flight school or a manager of a RAA member company? And by the way...if you expect major airlines to subsidize flight training, you can be sure they will go to the Government for help doing it and that takes me back to the last thing you said.
And....this is no way benefits the airline piloting profession.
Right now they are hell bent on idiotic euro style "ab initio" all glass 6 figure "chosen one" flight schools, when what we need is experience. Experience that can (and should) be done in cheaper round dial GA trainers. Instead these MBA idiots are focused only on reducing the minimums and increasing the cost of training with their all glass insanity and a bunch of extremely expensive sims. If anyone is carrying the airline lobby's water its you.
You said this already too....and it doesn't make me think any less what I said about you already. And don't try to turn this around on me...that's just silly.
As airline pilots, we shouldn't be concerned about helping the regionals find more cheap labor which seems to be all you talk about.
You just don't want to admit it because you mistakenly want to believe that high costs to entry will usher in an era of pre-deregulation Cadillac a month prosperity. It won't. It will exacerbate the current crisis and dramatically increase the likelihood that we will see more subsidies for flight schools, lower ATP mins and/or an MPL system, none of which will translate into higher pilot pay in the long run. The next step beyond that if, of course, cabotage. If we don't achieve a training infrastructure to meet demand, we will be at the mercy of anyone else that does and it won't be pretty.
This may be a valid argument but only if you are running an airline on razor thin margins...or you own a flight school.
I'd like to see another, much stronger, General Aviation Revitalization Act passed, which would help fuel GA in general and flight training in particular not with subsidies, but with tort reform at the manufacturing and instructing levels. I want to see much stronger protections against the scum filth concept of cabotage. And we need to have a winning stratedgy to fight the dual subsidized foreign enemy airlines on all fronts.
Same thing as above....although for the record, I do believe in keeping a strong GA in America and am personally actively involved in GA and have been a member of AOPA for over 30 years. I do understand that those are separate interests though.
It may be comforting to you to sit back, do nothing and think that the insane cost creep for education in general and pilot training in particular will automatically make it rain money for pilots and that's all we have to do for great success. That will not work.
I'm not sitting back....I'm here calling out guys like you.
You can disagree all you want, but please cease and desist with your baseless accusations that I'm pro-RAA. That organization is full of no talent hack scum bags and I'm loving the self imposed crisis they are in the midst of. I am against their attempts to lower minimums and get some MPL style ststem in this country. And I want to see a large chunk of their business taken away from them with improved mainline scope clauses, and those that try to go IndyAir II I want to see buried by the competition. You will find fewer people more against the RAA than me anywhere.
You misunderstand. It's not about disagreeing with you. Everybody has priorities and I don't think there's anything unusual or necessarily wrong with the RAA having their agenda or for that matter the owner of a flight school. I'm just pointing out that your statements are more consistent with the agenda of the RAA and large flight schools and are not in line with what's best for professional pilots.
By the way its you that want to apparently do away with unions and seniority lists, which is one of the most anti-labor shill points of view in airline history. You will never, and I mean ever, get to slide on over to a legacy mainline one single number above the most junior pilot on property before you were hired. Ever. You want that, go to China. Have fun. You will never get that here.
I make no secret that I think seniority lists are bad for the profession and good for management. Labor unions tend to support seniority lists but other than that I don't have anything against the unions. I've also demonstrated how the seniority system has worked to the advantage of airline management to lower labor costs over time.
A true advocate of regional airlines would fully embrace the seniority system knowing that it has made the business model possible. So defending the seniority system simply reinforces my belief that your agenda is pro RAA and pro large flight schools.
I have no need to advance over anyone's seniority. My agenda is more of a crusade to educate pilots and open their eyes rather than a personal need, but you already know that.