Originally Posted by
uboatdriver
In my example, there was no seniority system. Seniority would have allowed him to bid to a different category and remain in base. Lack of seniority would allow the company to say "this is your new position, take it or leave it"
Maybe I misunderstood your example but I think it doesn't change my point. Seniority could just as easily screw you over as help you depending on the circumstances.
I don't disagree that this industry needs better job portability, but I don't think eliminating seniority is the ticket. Flattening the pay scales is. This is an experience-based industry.
I disagree...It's not experienced based....it's seniority based. If you get hired at an airline as one of the most experienced pilots on the list you won't advance one bit based on experience. Flatter pay scales comes from an open labor market.
Airline pilots love to point out the top tier salaries of a very few pilots without realizing that the chances of ever achieving those levels for a new pilot entering the industry is extremely low. Right now a new pilot entering this industry can expect a career average salary of less than $80K per year.
The lower rungs of the industry are free of unions and seniority. Yet, the pay is low. It's to gain experience to get the next job. Regional pay is low not because of unions and seniority, but because you need to gain experience to get a major job. Piston twin night freight pay is low not because it's an easy job, but because you need the experience to get a better job.
This isn't true. The lower rungs (regional airlines) are not free of unions and seniority, they are over run with unions and seniority. What's lower than the starting salary at a union regional airline? If you are referring to rock bottom non-union entry level time building opportunities such as flight instruction...those jobs actually pay better than airlines.
I spent several years flying night freight before regionals and made more money than a regional airline captain back in the day (when banks still moved checks at night). I don't know what they pay these days but I thought it was mostly a dying industry.
Also, why should flying a 50-90 passenger jet airliner be considered as an experience building opportunity. It's no different than a 150 passenger jet as far as the job requirements and skills needed. In the old days when seniority worked for pilots and not for management such airlines didn't exist. It's ridiculous to think you need jet captain experience at a regional to be a first officer at a major.
Regional airlines are an industry wide B-scale, not an experience building opportunity.
It may be a cage to encourage retention, but it also gives you some control of your life at that company. Removing seniority will make everyone have the unpredictability of being at the bottom of the list.
What control? It gives management control...control over your pay and life. You have absolutely no control over your career withing the company when on a seniority list. Apart from maybe being able to control keeping your number.
What do you see as a realistic alternative to seniority? Especially when it comes to bidding schedules and vacation.
This is a good question. I think seniority always has some place to reward loyal employees but it needs to be more relaxed and specific to base/seat/equipment....not strictly company wide. Also, there in no reason we can't have union representation without seniority. They are not a mutual requirement.