Originally Posted by Nevets

We have less leverage because Skywest pilots are non-union. That doesn't mean we have no leverage, just less than we would otherwise have.



I didn't say you didn't have minimum days off, that in your anecdotes, you have never heard of anyone being written up for commuting, that lineholders had to answer their phone or arent released after a trip. I was just stating that, as an example of some of the many things you don't have, xjt has more days off, an actual written unlimited commuter policy, our reserve pilots are not required to answer their phone once on a trip and they are automatically released after the trip if there isn't anything on their schedule before block in. Also, you left out many many other examples that I pointed out. Like I said, it was just an example of the actual meat on the skeleton on work rules you guys have that are missing.



No, no one does and probably no one will. But my point is that if you guys actually had the leverage of a union, you would have more and therefore also help everyone else in the process.



This is a common misconception, especially from non-alpa members. Alpa is just an association of 3o independent unions. No one at alpa national can compel any mec to consider, vote, or ratify any concessions. With the right people in leadership positions, psa and pdt could've just told management they refuse to even consider concessions. And if that was the case, no one at alpa national could've done anything about it, if they wanted to. Each mec makes their decisions independent of anyone else.



Except for the fact that in a union, we can choose what greivances to send to an neutral arbitrator to decide. Or the union can decide to sit on that decision (hold that card) in order to possibly trade it for something else later. This is how we got our policy of unlimited sick calls if you have a doctors note. More often than not, once contract negotiations is in its finals stages, in order to clear the back log, the company "pays" off that backlog with some improvement in the contract. What you have is...nothing.

How is that keeping your hold contract working out for ExpressJet/ASA, Horizon, AWAC? As far as Im aware Expressjet is losing aircraft in the 3 figure area, and AWACs contract with its sole source of flying has not been extended. Don't get me wrong, I do believe your contracts have pluses, and I believe everyone should be fairly compensated for everything that goes into this career, but I do believe that at the end of the day you have to be competitive and you cannot be with contracts that have substantial costs in them that are way higher than what the market is dictating, and what the market is dictating has been and forever will be undermined by groups seeking to gain flying, which is everyone. Most pilots think short term, get my time and move on, they even take a hit in pay (horizontal move) to gain a potentially quicker upgrade and hope to move to mainline. I commend Envoy and Expressjet/ASA for standing the line, I just don't think burning the company down will pay mortgages and everything else. Where does the continuous downward spiral end without people holding the line? Nowhere, thats why its continuous, because someone will always stab someone in the back. Some may say well I will move on to mainline before the doors close...what if you don't? First year pay at Skywest is $24 a hour, Compass is around $28 (?), does that pay the bills for you? Probably not. Yes, everyone should have a backup plan but if you make little $$ chances are you aren't investing in a income property or starting a side business. [/auote]

This is a defeatist attitude. Just because something is hard, you quit? If its the right thing to do, you cower in fear rather than take the stand? The fact of the matter is that our CEO has made the decision to pit our pilot groups against each other so that he and the stockholders can make a little more from suppressing our wages. I submit that that is immoral and will not vote for him to do that to me. Next, many regionals are now paying signing and retention bonuses. Our own airlines are providing $7500 for people with RJ types and $1000 for referrals, yet you think that the market doesn't bear you guys not being able to be notified by an EFB, at the very least? If you are ok with all of that, then there is no point of us having a discussion on this because its not true that the market cannot bear increased pilot cost. The market is just trying to make us take pay cuts. But if we don't, they will continue to increase these incentives (that cost regionals millions) until they reach the point where pilots will be ok with the new norm. By laying down and already giving up, you leave money on the table.



I wasn't trying to blame skywest for that. I was just pointing out the correlations.



This is still no reason to try to help yourselves though. And in the process you help others. If your pilot group can improve their pay, benefits, retirement, and insurance in any amount that is more than you would without a union, that sets the new water mark for everyone. As of now, with no leverage that a union provides, you leave "money" on the table. And it doesn't have to be in pay rates. Like I said, most of the meat of a contract (if there is any) comes from work rules, such as EFB notification, insurance, and retirment.



Sure, I work for the same shareholders that you do. Yet we are pitted against each other. And the only reason why is to suppress our wages. Thats how a great company treats their employees. But we all rationalize it somehow because its get in, do your time, get out. It doesn't matter that we didn't try to make it a better company to work for for the people after us. That is my biggest complaint about the people we both work for.



Yes, one side of the corporation is doing good while the other is withering on the vine without a care from the CEO other than the care for money. That is the corporation that is called SkyWest Inc. If you want to be part of that, then apply.



The cards are stacked against you even more without a union. Yes, there will probably never be a single seniority list. The economic equilibrium can be changed though. But that happens only when everyone is using their leverage to its fullest advantage. By being non-union, you are wasting leverage.

Here is a real life example, this EFB notification policy, at ASA and XJT, they will not be any EFB notification. There is no discussion to be had! Its done. We are getting them and thats it. No worrying about notifications. The only reason why is because we are unionized. There is no way management can just tell us that they are going to use it to notify us. And if they did, AND we wanted to entertain the idea, then we would negotiate something in return. THATS the leverage! How bad do they want it? With a union, its a give and take. Without a union, its just take it and deal with it. And if you do get away with it, its only because of coattailing of unions. They know if they do enough of these things to you, you will unionize and join us in just trying to even out the deck a little bit. Of course they don't want that. But when you use that to your benefit instead of unionizing, you are effectively sticking the middle finger at all of us trying to make things better as well.

To answer your question, whatever the market rate for a pilot on a mainline seniority list flying a regional jet while being employed by said mainline. Anything less is just corporations out sourcing in order to suppress our wages.





Our EFB MOU was announced on Feb 11. The MOU was uploaded onto the union website in order for us to read and provide feedback to our reps. The MOU did not change any notification requirements. We are not allowed to be notified of anything on the EFB. The reps ratified it shortly thereafter.



Not everyone was voting in concessions. XJT voted theirs down. Then Eagle voted theirs down. Then RAH voted theirs down. Then Commutair voted in an LOA with gains. Since then, many regionals are paying signing bonuses.