Originally Posted by flyphisher

What is ultimately your point? I don't think anyone has been saying this is a great place to work. UPS is UPS. They haven't changed their tune since long before I got here. UPS loves to fight with their labor.

Is your point to get the Nay Sayers to collectively hold their breath like the disenfranchised until UPS does things their way? Kicking and crying over everything until the ultimate feet stomping breath hold? Or do you do the right thing....abide by the contract in "no waivers no favors", and get off the jet when the contract is being violated?

If pilots coming to UPS are so smart, so industry astute, how do they not know the age/hiring demographics of UPS before getting here? Educating themselves of reality and choosing before they get here rather than getting here and holding their breath? Now they whine and complain about (in their view) no possibility of upgrading and they should compensated. One guy says he was told THREE YEARS to captain upgrade in his interview. And coming from an ACMI carrier. Really. An ACMI pilot coming to UPS.....first doesn't know the age demographics of the UPS pilot group? Or knowing it he/she doesn't care....because they are leaving the ACMI world to come to UPS? I'd say the latter. They were all too happy to come to UPS. But now they want to be compensated because UPS lied to them.

If UPS said twenty years to upgrade, most all would have still left the left seat of the ACMI world. Not all. There are a few who's ego is bigger than their need for stability and bigger paycheck. At least they are honest. Staying as a captain is more important to them. Their call.

The concept of, "oh.....I didn't know! Or, UPS lied to me!" Whatever. Falls on deaf ears. They are assumed smart enough to have done their own homework.

I can understand someone not fully understanding the realities of coming to a combative company. But UPS has had for decades a very public persona of being combative to their labor unions. This ain't no social club. And 2, 3, 4 or even 5 years after they got here, were perfectly welcome to leave when legacy hiring started. They could have gotten in on the leading edge of the hiring elsewhere. They got a taste of UPS management and had the freedom to act as they see fit.

But this entitlement attitude of what they now, "deserve" is destructive. Fixing the fo pay slope at the expense of retirement a long forgotten binding of the Union as a group.

What is your point? Continue to hold your breath? Get everyone to hold their breath? Do you think you are pointing out things that, "elder statesmen", haven't dealt with for decades?

Any job is what you make of it and nothing is ever going to be perfect. Anywhere. UPS doesn't owe you or I anything. And none of us will know until we retire if we made the right decision. And it's always the right decision at the exact moment you make it. History (retirement), might show otherwise. But the decision was the right one in coming to UPS at the time you made it. And if it's a, "mistake", then leave. Simple.

As an afterthought in closing, UPS would most of all want to engage their labor groups emotionally. That's a victory for them. You get emotional, then you make mistakes. Then you get fired. Score 1 for UPS labor. Every single day is another day of negotiations at UPS. And if you get emotional about it, they will eat you alive.