Originally Posted by
pilotstats
Given a status quo in the rest of the contract it's a no brainer. The interesting parts will be in other than Section 3, will we gain or lose? We've seen giveaways and gains in all different areas. Quantifying that will be the part that needs the most scrutiny.
Originally Posted by
Carl Spackler
Direct answer, the math is essentially correct. Now here's my question to you: Do you agree or disagree with your math being completely undone by concessions in other areas like profit sharing, scope, scheduling and work rules?
Carl
Thank you. I'm glad that you agree with my analysis. You and I are quite in agreement that the "devil is in the details". See above from the original scenario posed. Of course it is vital to evaluate the remainder of the deal! I would not state otherwise.
The original was exercise to show that when controlling for other variables, a profit-sharing to pay conversion is just that, a conversion... not a concession.
It will help us all if we are using the same definitions, so let me know if you agree or not with the following in a contractual context:
Concession- the act of removing a contractual provision or protection where either: value is lost, no quid is made, no value is added elsewhere. Party A has a reduced value of their agreement going forward, and Party B has increased it's value within the agreement.
Exchange/Conversion/Trade-When two parties alter a contract where party A reduces the value of a provision or protection, and receives that value elsewhere in an agreement at the expense of party B. Also known as a "quid". Overall value remains the same to parties A and B, but the value is shifted to different areas than before the change.
Improvement/Gains-Where party A is able to increase the value of an agreement above and beyond the status quo. The end result being greater for party A than prior to the modified agreement.
Do you agree with those definitions?
Originally Posted by
Carl Spackler
Translation: Profit sharing is bad and must be given up you idiot pilots.
All of us at Ford & Harrison thank you in advance for your continued support.
Carl
Not at all. Not sure where it was stated "must be given up", those are your words not mine. I wholly disagree with that philosophy! Profit sharing is not bad, it's quite valuable actually (as the last few years have finally shown). I expect that the value will continue to be there over the next few years.
Your second comment is rather insulting, some of us(maybe not you) have actually been on the receiving end of a Ford and Harrison campaign, it's ugly, destructive, and has hurt many families over the years. I kindly ask that you refrain from attempting to apply that description to me.
If you notice, I agree with you in regards to valuation issues.