Originally Posted by
QuagmireGiggity
They were a part of the four party agreement. In other words APA supports it so not sure what the problem is.
The "four party agreement" really isn't controlling the present batch of AE flows (AKA the "824" pilots). Yes, they were awarded flow-thru opportunities via an arbitration award pursuant to that agreement, but they are a byproduct of it, not something the APA is truly involved in. They come over just like any other street pilot except for vacation accrual and have their own flow rate mechanism not stipulated in the former Supplement W.
Originally Posted by
QuagmireGiggity
People currently flowing supported AA pilots allowing hundreds to come to Eagle as flowbacks. Eagle pilots suffered financial harm by displacements and stagnation. And they were happy to do it. We always believed at Eagle that all flying should be AA flying. That doesn't mean shut us out though. There's only so much they could do given the free market out there.
Now that there is some movement it's only fair to let us flow up as agreed without catching grief from people.
This fight should not be about mainline vs. regional pilot. It's pilots vs. management. Don't fall into that trap. The absorption of regionals into mainline may not be all that far away. For now a flow agreement is a step in the right direction as it puts pressure on management.
I think the majority felt this way, but a minority did not. Those not flowing wanted as much flying from wherever as Eagle (now Envoy) could get and a small percentage of senior F/O's were miffed they got stiffed out of their upgrade (or so they believed).
Originally Posted by
QuagmireGiggity
As far as the quality of regional pilots/interviews.. I agree there needs to be control from mainline recruitment. From what I gather about current Envoy recruitment is they are mostly getting military people that want to stay current. They are not taking any warm body like many regionals. (Not that many people would want to go there anyway with all the turmoil.)
There is always going to be some bad apples that don't get filtered.. just like there are bad apples that made it through mainline interviews. No interview process is foolproof.
It's not a perfect system. Hopefully all flying will be mainline with mainline pay scales in the next few years.
Agreed on a lot of this. One one hand, AE flows are vetted by AA more then any street hire as they have extensive info on their training performance, attitude, attendance and personality acquired over years or even decades vs. a street hire they have to judge with limited PRIA, FAA and a couple of hours of interaction. On the other hand, even if a specific flow is marginal in some or all those areas, they still get to swing the bat at AA and if their training is as least satisfactory, they make it to the line. Some flows simply wouldn't be selected street hire style though and that is the reality, but like you said, some pilots are good at playing the interview game and end up being less then desirable people to share a cockpit wiith, especially over time as the years roll by. The airline pilot business has always had a strong component of luck which can be good or not so good depending upon the person or more accurately, the personality.