This is off the beaten path and not helping the guys that need to find info on sims. However, since I work and fly at Edwards AFB, I went out and looked at the KC-135, KC-10, C-5, C-130 and C-17 on the ramp - all HSIs were clearly visible from a normal sitting position. Even the T-43 (737-200) was more than 50% visible, and the old 747-300 NASA Shuttle Carrier had a clearly visible HSI. B-52, good, B-1, good, B-2, can't remember, that was 5 years ago, but I'm sure its good.

Line pilots will accept what is given to them and train to overcome deficiencies in the jet. In flight test, deficiencies are unacceptable and corrected early in the design process. Deficiencies get to the line when the manufacturer refuses to spend the money to fix it, or does not have the engineering solution at the time to get around the problem, which is why some jets have longer training programs than others.

Kouk,

I respect your opinion and background. Sorry to interpret your post as saying that only military aircraft have the HSI's in the correct position and that airline aircraft do not and would not pass the military's stringent flight tests.

Not sure why the military would procure the 707 (multiple roles), 727 (DC ANG), 737 (Navy/USAF), 747 (Air Force 1 and electronic warfare), 757 (C32 VIP Transport), DC9 (Medivac) and loose talk of the 767 for the replacement for the aging tanker fleet, if they were "unacceptable" aircraft.

Not sure if you have flown for an airline, but giving you the benefit of the doubt, from my experience, line pilots don't just accept what is given to them if there is a known deficiency. When it comes to safety, airline pilots aren't just bumbling fools. Of the few positive things ALPA and American's APA do, they do evaluate new aircraft and make recommendations to the manufacturer. In addition, their fingerprints are apparent during and after accident investigations to try and improve the equipment we operate.

Our training is not substandard. It is quite common for military crews to come to airlines and civilian contractors for training (Flight Safety). However, in nearly 20 years of airline flying, I have never had the opportunity to be trained by the military for any of the airline aircraft I've been trained on.

I dont have a bone with you personally, it just gets old when us civie guys are told how our airline training is substandard to the military's and how the airliners we fly are junk and then told by a military guy how they are much more qualified to get hired at an airline job over an airline guy who has 13,000TT, 5 type ratings and thousands of hours of airline captain experience flying airline flights.

Again sorry for the rant and no disprespect for the military folks, but hey, why come to work for the airlines, if all the planes are junk and the airline guys you're going to be working with are substandard because they weren't "formally trained" ???

Just some trivia, the 747(s) used to transport the shuttles is a tired old 747-100 retired from American's fleet and a decade later NASA picked up another one which was a JAL bird another -100. There was always a controvery why the C-5 wasn't used...

Best of Luck, sorry for the thread hi-jack

FF