Originally Posted by
wmupilot85
Yes, going from one regional to another is a lateral move. Going to a major is not a lateral move.
Lets just use Mesa and American as an example.
...................Mesa..............American
..............F/O.......Capt.......F/O.......Capt
Year 1 -...$22.........$57.......$75.......$137
Year 2 -...$29.........$59.......$75.......$138
Year 4 -...$34.........$63.......$88.......$140
It takes 11 years as a Mesa captain, to make what an American/US Airways E-Jet first year F/O makes. When pilots switch regional airlines, that tells the oppressors as you call them (in which you support as well), that they can continue to shift flying from one cheaper carrier to the next. What happens when another cheaper carrier comes along and takes your flying, and you're back on the street?
Wouldn't a better idea to try and change the way this game it? Make the majors be forced to bring flying back in house, thus created more major jobs, higher pay, higher compensation, better QoL, etc? You also state pay hike, like the dollar amount is the tell tale sign of everything. Total compensation is a whole 'nother ball game.
Good luck with what ever you chose. But remember, you're not upgrading because our costs are to high to grow. We cannot compete with cheaper airlines, because pilots will go to those airlines to support the constant shuffle of flying to the cheapest. If the cheapest weren't able to survive, the flying would be forced to go somewhere - either the major carrier or the more expensive regional.
I'm not sure why you're posting the above numbers as an example. The example I'm going with is much simpler: stay here as an FO and make $40/hr or go somewhere else as an CA and make $63. If I were to stay at my own airline and apply that matrix you would call it an upgrade. Since I'm changing an airline you call it a lateral move. We just disagree on our definitions. Que sera sera.
That being said, I don't think you should be so harsh on people to whom the above numbers do apply. By your handle you can tell you're definitely closer to the beginning of your career than to the end. And with a nice education from Western Michigan to boot. I'll go out on a limb and assume you aren't a single dad with two minor children getting ready to go to college and a mortgage to pay. Not everybody is in your boat. You really shouldn't be so critical of those who need to do something other than what you would do because they are different things happening in their life.
Yep, it would be great to see ALL the flying go back to the oppressor's house. I've been in this industry long enough to remember them flying 747's between MSP and DTW on a daily run. I remember the majors changing their scope to allow the 50 seater. And their pilots were happy with it because it brought them a fat raise even though it leveraged the future of the industry. How me taking an upgrade at another airline, or staying an FO at this one, is going to change that... I just don't know. I do know how a 63% raise will help me pay the bills though.
I commend your idealism of how to defeat the oppressor's. And I also question it. As soon as you can get out of this god-forsaken regional industry you'll do it. And I'm sure you won't look back. A difference between you and I is that I admit it and you don't. Maybe you'll be a surprise and you will go to Washington D.C. and lobby our legislatures for reform. Maybe you'll back a movement to spin off ALPA regional so their conflict of interest won't be so damning to the regional industry. Maybe you'll put your money where your mouth is. But, chances are, like everybody else you'll just be happy to put this stage of your career behind you.
I don't know about the data to support your claim that the recent 2015 agreements signed at PSA and TSA are cheaper than the agreements signed in the 2004 CBA at XJT. Skywest made it very clear in the TA we voted down last year that they wanted scope relief to take our airplanes and pilots. Maybe that's kinda what they're doing.
You and I are just at different stages of life and life experiences. And that's ok. Diversity is a good thing and makes the world go round. I've enjoyed hearing your opinion and do wish you the best of luck in your career. I'll look forward to your final response to this thread and I'll be bowing out. I feel like this issue is hijacking the reason people may be coming new to this thread and see what the latest and greatest at XJT is. Blue skies....