Originally Posted by eaglefly

It's good you've chosen not to explain to me about the flow as I'm perfectly aware of what is occurring with it. It WOULD in fact, be wasting both of our times.

The flow IS working now. I've never disputed that even though last Summer there was a big brouhaha when AA didn't take any Envoy pilots when they should have. Making up for it after the fact doesn't change that, but yes, for arguments sake I'll agree that was an anomaly. But "now" isn't next Summer, 18 months or 6 years from now. That has been my point. The pilots flowing now are part of an arbitration award and most are above the competitions pay grades and thus there may be another component driving that flow for now. That dynamic could change completely once the last 824 flows, which looks like now will be in sometime in late 2017. Thus, NO ONE..........and I mean NO ONE, not even Parker himself can accurately make ANY promises about what an Envoy new-hire might realize at any point in the future. Any pilot who believes such a prognostication deserves what he/she gets.

As far as EL, I think it actually is a good litmus. I talk directly to Envoy pilots weekly in passing I knew there and they virtually ALL say the same thing, i.e., they've got one foot out the door at the first opportunity and the QWL there flat out sucks. Most have little faith in their union reps to correct the situation as well. Now admittedly, these are mostly more senior F/O's who've been there 5-8 years (which says something) and not senior captains in the 824. These senior pilots all to a T talk about being senior and getting poor schedules with 11-12 days off, low times and poor commutability. EL just backs that up with more pilots I don't converse with personally. I know a few of the 824's too and they plan to flow because most believe they have little hope in being picked up by a company that is more then a lateral move like DAL, UAL, FedEx or perhaps SWA. They're in their 40's or older and feel they have missed the boat. They don't want to start at the bottom of an LCC at those pay rates and futures. I know a few lifers (a couple who were even senior to me) who plan to retire there or go down with the ship, in the unlikely event that occurs first.

I'm more then aware of life at Envoy and compared to life at the old Letter 3 American Eagle pre-2010, it sounds like a disaster. Beware of ANYONE who rationalizes that as simply being just another regional existence equal to others. There are worse places to be sure, but QWL is better at others as well. I've talked to a few SkyWest pilots and even looked at a recent bid sheet and it was similar to what I recall at the old AE. Not saying anyone shouldn't go to Envoy, just do it for valid reasons that are quantifiable. What happens with the flow in 2,4 or 6 years is NOT a quantifiable reason IMO.