While you're at it educate yourself on things like historical pattern bargaining, the NMB and the limitations our unions have. Add in what the negotiating committees have to deal with, their interactions with management reps and what the BODs want. it's a complex process. Also read up on how so much of this is tied to leverage. Leverage in part is made up of things like a favorable economy, profits, unified pilot groups, a labor friendly NMB etc etc. leverage is not gained from the oversimplification of this process you and others have stated. Spirit management penny pinches every chance they get. They won't hand over the raises you and Qotas want no matter how long you cry and sulk in the corner. We should and potentially will make very large gains across the board, but if you guys are this ignorant and unwilling to see a deal in its totality before you make up your minds then you're beyond any potential forum reasoning