I can say this about Envoy: They seem like a solid company, and ever Envoy pilot to whom I have spoken, either in person or via PM here on APC said if they were to be starting today, they would choose Envoy again. None were happy about the long reserve/upgrade times. I have spoken to 5-yr FOs, and 10-yr CAs, as well as a mix in between. The company has weathered some tough times, and my hat is off to those who toughed it out, believing in the company, and not jumping like a rat from a sinking ship. I am sure many considered it, probably more than once, but those who have stayed have helped the company stay afloat.

And I say all of this having no skin in their game. I have done some of my own math, and personally, I would be very surprised if we don't see much better movement there within the next 6 months, continuing for the next 2-3 years.

And for those talking about FO pay caps at 4 years... compare today's 4 year rate to last year's 4-year rate. To me, a cap makes sense, provided the upward movement actually comes into play. It makes no business sense to incentivize FOs past 4 years (provided that there is room to upgrade). Move up, or get out, I say.