Originally Posted by Eaglepilot84

Not a troll at all. I'm a 2008 hire, CRJ FO.

As for the real task at hand, here is how our MEC broke down the 2.5/6 using FO Charlie Bucket..

In order to meet Captain Wilson’s 2.5 year upgrade plan a new hire pilot’s relative seniority needs to go from 0% to approximately 40% in that time frame. Mr. Wilson’s announcement of this plan was made May 29, 2015 and the following focuses on a pilot who we will call, “First Officer Charlie Bucket”, hired immediately after the claim was originally made. We used the assumptions of the most junior CA being at 40% relative seniority (as it is now) and the airline staying the same size as it is today.



When we compare our 7-15-2015 Official Seniority List with the latest official Seniority List from January, we are able to get a sense as to where we started, where we are, and where we are headed. 



A 1.33% relative seniority rate of change per month (40% total increase required dived by 30 months) is required on day one of training for a new hire to upgrade in 2.5 years at any airline where the junior captain is around 40% seniority like we find at Envoy. Since the announcement, Charlie Bucket has seen a relative seniority increase of 4.08%, which is approximately 0.68% per month, approximately half of what is required. Due to this stagnation, FO Charlie now has some significant catching up to do to attain a 2.5-year upgrade. Every month that goes by, it becomes more and more difficult to attain this goal.

In order to maintain a 1.33% rate of change Envoy would need to hire 805 pilots by the end of 2017. 34 new hires per month will be required, at a minimum, moving forward.



We hired 88 in the last 6 months of 2015.

These numbers take an assumed number of pilots we send to AA and average attrition relative to Charlie Bucket’s seniority into account.



The management of Envoy is ready, but AAG does not seem to be interested in allowing the necessary investments and improvements that would make our carrier competitive in comparison to our peer airlines. We quickly need to see announcements that would truly excite a new hire into choosing Envoy over an airline that offers faster upgrades, higher pay, and geographically varied bases.

We are extremely receptive to helping management improve the attractiveness of this carrier, and indeed have presented quality, durable recruitment and retention ideas that will both provide the necessary inducements for new hires to come here and existing pilots to stay here.




SO. Is 2.5/6 possible? Absolutely, but not when envoys sole recruitment tool (flow) is violated at will and or contract is nothing more then a piece of toilet paper in their eyes.