Originally Posted by eaglefly

I've been accused of being an ax grinder before both against Envoy and/or their present pilots. I'm neither. I think present Envoy pilots deserve far better then the same old B.S. of the past, but all I've seen IS the same old B.S. of the past perpetually reconstituted. All I've done here is wave a flag at what I see as B.S. against those trying to sell that as righteous truth to the unwitting or "something new". Fact is, if I truly had an ax to grind against your carrier, I'd preach not going there under ANY circumstances or leaving for ANYTHING else. I don't believe either to be the case. For some, even with Envoy's situation, it might be one of the better choices to consider as a future stop. For some there, I understand many are simply too committed to move laterally and thus unless a decent LCC or legacy calls, they're along for the ride.

NEITHER situation changes the fact that the promises made regarding 2.5/6 (or better) which you have joined in selling are anything remotely dependable or accurate. The math simply doesn't add up. That is becoming more clear by the day. You can continually pull the string in your back about 30 flows last month, but that means nothing regarding the future. I think it's also painfully obvious the present management there thinks very little of their pilots by virtue of making a mockery of the very contract they themselves agreed to and what message does that send to those there or not yet there about the future ?

As for the flow, your claims are bunk. The fact is that regardless of the management teams in place, what is occurring now is a requirement based on an arbitral award and they are now sharpshooting that to bare minimum benefit to Envoy pilots and most importantly to note it is being done, WHEN IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE and again what message does THAT send to present and future pilots ?

I don't think you are aware of just how ridiculous you look coming on here within the last week or so as though you are trying something new. The fact is several there have done this before for months now, but it appears at least most of them are starting to get it too. What either of us say here won't change the situation either way at Envoy as that will be a result both of other forces that cannot be altered like the near dry supply of entry-level Regional pilots and the undeniable fact of just how Envoy pilots are treated there which is abundantly obvious based on the very pilots themselves essentially saying life at this carrier has never been worse. At least that's the message I get. It's the message getting out there by many or even most present Envoy pilots. If your management truly wanted to make an honest effort to maximize their future situation, they'd start living up to their contractual agreements and negotiate mutually acceptable changes with a different attitude that they have. This carriers reputation is not based on what is said from those that do not work there, but those that do and unless and until THAT changes, Envoy's name will be mud, at least IMO and that has nothing to do with me or anyone's ax from the outside.

You broke it, you fix it and if not, then expect a predictable future.