Originally Posted by
Eaglepilot84
The funny thing is, the anti-envoy clan keeps claiming the "salesman" are convinced the flow is iron-clad and that it can't be violated. Nobody has EVER said that. Contracts can and will be violated all the time. What we're saying is that it doesn't behoove AAG management to do a complete 180 of their recruitment plans. My opinion (as a current employee who is more familiar with day-to-day operations then you, SayAlt, and eaglefly is) is that both envoy management and AAG will do whatever it takes to keep the flow moving along as advertised. They're doing it as we speak and we can agree to disagree at the extent to which it is working.
While the new-hire pool is certainly dwindling, it's not empty. The reality is that all airlines are competing for the same group of pilots, which is the exact reason why pilots such as SayAlt talk bad about envoy. It's a cowardly move, as I could care less about Skywest. I hardly know anything about them so I'm not going to bombard their forum with lies, scare tactics, etc.
As for former employees such as yourself and eaglefly, the only reason why I could imagine that you're essentially guaranteeing the flow won't work as advertised and that any current FO will be here for a long long time, is that you're jealous and angry that it's not how it worked for you. For you, you bailed and want to see a validation in your career move. Jealousy and regret is an ugly stench and it's all over you.
I think the flow is working well right now. Envoy/AAG has made a critical error by holding back 5 people a couple of months ago. That small action has hurt their credibility with the pilot cadre who desperately want to believe there is a way out of the Envoy quagmire.
My opinion is that once the 824 are gone and when/if the staffing problems I've noted come to fruition, you'll see a change of the flow where 30 aren't going each month, maybe 10 are. I say when/if because AAG could decide at the last minute that cheap feed is too valuable and they might decide to do something that surpasses Endeavor to attract the limited amount of aviators out there. Unprecedented is the word here as I believe AAG will do nothing until it absolutely has to. The grass is on fire in the barnyard now and that fire has crept to the edge of the building and is burning enough that the bottom boards of the barn are now smoking. As we know with AAG, the barn will become fully engulfed before meetings start on what to do.
The hiring well is fairly dry right now with all of the regionals competing for the same limited number of bodies. If AAG offered big bucks like Endeavor or something better, other guys who have gotten out completely or are working in another segment of aviation might decide to get back in. This is happening at Endeavor now.
Eagle and especially Envoy have typically violated agreements on a regular basis and made the quality of life unbearable for some. They continue with the page from the AMR playbook to aggressively discipline and punish instead of making the work environment friendly and easy to navigate.
I bailed due to the belief that I was far enough down the list that the flow would stop or be severely reduced before it got to me. I wasn't keen on making Envoy a career always waiting and hoping for that flow carrot that the company likes to dangle and then jerk away. The dismal Envoy hiring numbers I posted yesterday that Skyvector has buried his head in the sand about, were enough evidence that things weren't too rosy from my point of view. Low hiring numbers = stagnation and regression when Envoy is "right-sized" and no longer shrinking.
You've mentioned in the past that decisions about the flow and how they calculate the numbers were well above your paygrade and that people smarter than you came up with them. I assume from your postings that you were hired in 2011 or after. With that seniority, I would advise taking stock and looking at the situation. You may decide Envoy works for you and you want to wait for the flow. That's a personal decision and if it's yours and you've taken the time to examine the situation then that's great.