No, that's not it at all. ORD is spot on here. I am GLAD that today's F/O's won't have to go through what we did, I am GLAD they are making closer to a reasonable wage for their skills.

The problem here, as usual, lies with the inability of management (both envoy and AAG) to understand that the morale of your employees matters, and to be extremely tone deaf in their communications with the employee group. You have to remember that when Charlie Bucket's golden ticket promises were made, the scars of bankruptcy, the Comair II threats, and the 500 pilots that management chased off to other carriers were still pretty fresh. Quite frankly, most of us didn't believe a damn thing they said. As has been proven, not only were the concessions we took economically unjustified, but they ended up raising effective F/O pay far higher than it had been, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT WE TOLD THEM WOULD HAPPEN. After putting us through hell for absolutely no reason, we don't exactly trust the people that are supposed to be managing this company.

So when management lackeys (some of which are just trolls) want to sell this rosy picture to potential new-hires (without realistically talking about the potential pitfalls), you're damn right some of us have a problem with it. I'm sorry, but "they're just supposed to know better" isn't justification for lying through omission or following the best practices of a used-car salesman. Personally, I think that is unethical, especially when someone is making a decision about a purely seniority-based career.

Before one of them accuses me of being a grumpy old codger, I HAVE actually helped recruit a pilot whom asked me about envoy. I told him the good and bad, positives and negatives, and he still made an informed decision to apply. I want this company to succeed, but not based on the backs of starry-eyed new hires fed rainbow sherbert.