Again as the other guy said it's a cyclical industry. We can get into this over and over. When I was hired in 2004 at AWAC....CAL would not cover your first 6 months of insurance. It's not till recently that the majors have fixed first year pay. Again you don't see me defending our first year pay. Now if we want to get into it I can make the argument that you me and ATR seemed to be just fine with first year pay since we all willingly took the job here. That does not excuse the fact of we are where we are but these rates are public knowledge. Should we compare ourselves to a regional NO but at the same time ALK first year is 57 HAL 36 UPS 46. Is that OK and how did 9e pass them? I know you will say well it's just first year and they have a contract so you will be better off. I agree, and I think in the long run we will be the same.

We are doing massive work here. Building a union and a CBA from scratch, changing the way JetBlue as a company deals with pilots and changing the very "culture" of JetBlue.

This is a foundational contract and every future CBA here will be built on this. I want it done but I also want it done right. So this debate is slightly pointless. ATR was able to take a shot( I didnt argue that his pay issue was wrong) just that there is a lot to this debate.

Again not attack you in anyway. I just think if people want real debates you need to look at everything and how we are where we are. There are so many different parts that need to be taken into context.

I agree we are a regional airline with our route map, I also agree we will be much better off when we have a contract. The 18 month part I'm not so sure about