Quote:
I agree! This is a clear flag of convenience situation and exactly what my worst fear is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_convenience
I believe that Norwegian does this as well, don't they have several AOC's too? Oh wait, they do! Ireland, UK, and Argentina so far.
Currently they fly just 7 A330s, but that is going to roughly double next year and more the year after. All flown by either a ryan-air like contractor employment model at Brussel Airlines, or non-unionized extremely lowly paid (max captain pay per year is 109.000€) pilots employed by a joint venture of Lufthansa and Turkish Airlines.
Same with Level, an extremly lowcost brand from IAG (which owns British Airways, Iberia and Air Lingus).
The real risk is the financial and operational might of the Legacy carriers with extremely low paid employees. They do have a cost advantage you cannot match, neither can the legacy mainline carriers themselves, which leads to increased pressure on their conditions. Lufthansa mainline pilots just at the moment run a ballot to lower their T&Cs by 15% and completely abolish their scope clause, and yes it will go in favor of that proposal.
There is no pilot shortage in Europe. Willy Walsh, CEO of IAG just commented on that as well, in their brand Air Lingus they received over 3000 quality applications for 100 jobs. And they will start flying the north atlantic in A321LR in 2019 as well.
However, you cannot call those carriers flag of convenience carriers, becaused (because they are based) from their home country.
YES I CAN. Other people can too, they just like arguing over semantics for some reason. IAG has 13 (THIRTEEN!) AOC's to it's name. Norwegian has AOC's in Ireland, the UK, and Argentina. Lufthansa has TEN wholly owned airlines across four countries! I'm sure that they are operating this way solely because it's more efficient in some way shape or form and not to have the leverage to force lower wages upon the higher paid employee groups in the consortium.
Because if that was the case, having several different companies operating in separate FLAG states in the same type OF business would definitely be a CONVENIENCE. Right?
They do have every right to operate into the US under the current open sky agreement, and those lower or lowest cost carriers will increasingly do. Especially with the nice and shiny new 737Max and A320NEO family, which allows transatlantic flights at nearly half the cost of a widebody jet per seat.
CURRENT open sky agreement. Treaties can change and be amended.
I'm having fun. Keep 'em coming boys. Joachim, got anything for me? Dera?Originally Posted by Denti
Norwegian is the least of your worries. Really. Consider Lufthansa backing their own low cost brand, that currently operates with 8 different AOCs, each of which has complete and free access to the US if they ever want to use it.I agree! This is a clear flag of convenience situation and exactly what my worst fear is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_convenience
I believe that Norwegian does this as well, don't they have several AOC's too? Oh wait, they do! Ireland, UK, and Argentina so far.
Currently they fly just 7 A330s, but that is going to roughly double next year and more the year after. All flown by either a ryan-air like contractor employment model at Brussel Airlines, or non-unionized extremely lowly paid (max captain pay per year is 109.000€) pilots employed by a joint venture of Lufthansa and Turkish Airlines.
Same with Level, an extremly lowcost brand from IAG (which owns British Airways, Iberia and Air Lingus).
The real risk is the financial and operational might of the Legacy carriers with extremely low paid employees. They do have a cost advantage you cannot match, neither can the legacy mainline carriers themselves, which leads to increased pressure on their conditions. Lufthansa mainline pilots just at the moment run a ballot to lower their T&Cs by 15% and completely abolish their scope clause, and yes it will go in favor of that proposal.
There is no pilot shortage in Europe. Willy Walsh, CEO of IAG just commented on that as well, in their brand Air Lingus they received over 3000 quality applications for 100 jobs. And they will start flying the north atlantic in A321LR in 2019 as well.
However, you cannot call those carriers flag of convenience carriers, becaused (because they are based) from their home country.
YES I CAN. Other people can too, they just like arguing over semantics for some reason. IAG has 13 (THIRTEEN!) AOC's to it's name. Norwegian has AOC's in Ireland, the UK, and Argentina. Lufthansa has TEN wholly owned airlines across four countries! I'm sure that they are operating this way solely because it's more efficient in some way shape or form and not to have the leverage to force lower wages upon the higher paid employee groups in the consortium.
Because if that was the case, having several different companies operating in separate FLAG states in the same type OF business would definitely be a CONVENIENCE. Right?
They do have every right to operate into the US under the current open sky agreement, and those lower or lowest cost carriers will increasingly do. Especially with the nice and shiny new 737Max and A320NEO family, which allows transatlantic flights at nearly half the cost of a widebody jet per seat.
CURRENT open sky agreement. Treaties can change and be amended.