Originally Posted by
dracir1
Again, the timing of all the NK representations here seems very strange. I’m gonna call u all “so called NK pilots” as I dont believe any pilots, at any level, would be this naive.
So the thought process is that the TRO didn’t cause any sort of loss in terms of time or money but instead actually sped up negotiations? Ok.
In any negotiation, the most important aspect is leverage. That’s is basic Negotiating 101. You always want to be negotiating from a position of more strength. And, you always, always, always ask for more than the last comparable entity. When pro athletes ask for a new contract, very few settle for what’s good enough or middle of the pack (unless their services dictate such). Both of our groups fly A321s with more passengers than any other domestic airline. Our procedures are not substandard. We don’t fly more recklessly than JB or Virgin. We (that’s both you and me) deserve to be paid among the highest if not THE highest paid Airbus pilots in the country. Period. Doesn’t matter how much of an increase in cost it might be for the company. Doesn’t matter how long it’s been since the last contract. It is the companys job to find a way to make a profit selling airline transport services to pay their pilot group what they are worth, not yours. If they need to charge higher prices or find a way to pack more people in the back, so be it. I do my job with precision and dedication, so should they.
So called NK and fellow F9, you are selling yourself short of you think for a second your wages and benefits should be less than the tops in the industry. It’s unfortunate that NK will be capped by the NMB but so far, we haven’t been. It’s our duty to ourselves and all the pilot groups in the industry to hold out for as much as we can. We’ve come this far. We’ve behaved appropriately despite inciteful and devious tactics from the company. We need an industry leading (or very dayum close to it) contract in terms of wages, scope, vacation, insurance, etc.
" I’m gonna call u all “so called NK pilots”"
PM me for any proof you need, I'm sure there are pretenders on APC but I'm not.
"So the thought process is that the TRO didn’t cause any sort of loss in terms of time or money but instead actually sped up negotiations? Ok."
I don't think either of us will ever know if it did, personally I think it did help, because it showed investors the company is having labor problems. (See Reuters link, point 1). Also helped we have problems filling classes and increasing training failures.
For what it's worth I don't think we should have been TRO-ed. The company showed a couple of social media messages from a couple of misguided individuals, and BOOM, the whole group including the union is guilty.
"Both of our groups fly A321s with more passengers than any other domestic airline."
Sorry but you can't compare seat-miles like that. I got paid $100K to fly 1,000,000 ASM/year flying corporate, using your "logic" I should be making $6.5 million/year at Spirit. Yes, we pack more people but at the expense of having first/business class. American has transcon A321s with 110 seats, you think those pilots should be making half of what you make?
We deserve more than what I think is coming in the TA, we should have been released by the NMB, and I hope you get a better deal, I just don't agree with the $/seats argument.
"We need an industry leading (or very dayum close to it) contract in terms of wages, scope, vacation, insurance, etc"
I came to Spirit with over 10 years of flying experience (most of it TPIC) 5 years ago,but most of FOs hired in the past 3 years are coming in with very little experience and/or see Spirit as a stepping stone to the mayors, BECAUSE of the contract we have. This causes a downward spiral of expectation on both sides. I think F9 might be similar.
Sources:
Reuters:
https://www.reuters.com/article/brief-spirit-airlines-sees-pretty-big-ta/brief-spirit-airlines-sees-pretty-big-tax-deferral-following-tax-overhaul-idUSS8N1O302A
Then: flying 500 hours per year at 350 knots average ground speed in a six passenger citation is 1,000,000 available seat miles (ASM). I made $100,000 per year so I made $0.10 per ASM.
Now: flying 900 hours per year at average 400 knots average ground speed in average 180 seat Airbus is 65 million ASM. At a dime per ASM I should get $6,500,000.00 per year.....
Transcon A321:
https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/American_Airlines/American_Airlines_Airbus_A321_new.php
Disclaimer: too much time on my long layover