Fred Abbott and his friends survived from Frank Lorenzo thru Gordon Bethune thru Smisek. Fred was directly below Debbie as VP of Flight Ops during her tenure. Fred was there before Debbie rose up the ranks and climbed above Fred during Gordon Bethune’s tenure and his right hand man in flight Ops CD McLean (and one of Gordon’s closest friends). Before Gordon, Debbie was the fleet manager on the A300 working for Fred. It was Larry Kellner who got rid of her. Funny how everyone speaks so highly of Gordon, yet it was him directly who allowed Debbie to reign havoc and intimidation over the pilots.