"When I hear, "why should I turn down a 70k pay raise," I hear naivete".

Then you're not listening. I haven't spoken with a soul that has said they would drop a "yes" vote based solely on rates or "I'm making 70k more a year"!

Every last soul has stated it depends on solid, SCOPE, LTD, RETIREMENT!

Now the pay is LOW and not one person has disagreed, but per your normal listening skills, you hear what you want (let's not pretend we don't know who you are). And nobody disagrees we should ask for more!

However, the gains of the last 6 months equalled 5xxx thousand per pilot/per YEAR (56 million/1900 pilots).

Unless we can be reasonably sure we can secure 200-400 million MORE over the next 6-12 months then it MATHEMATICALLY does not work!

Sure we'll feel better for "sticking it to the man" but at a huge cost! Maybe you're right, we've been out negotiated, but hopefully we're not so neieve as to allow ourselves to achieve a 30-50 thousand dollar gain while losing 40-80 over that 6-12 months.

Do you see that? Make 30-50k, LOSE 40-80k? Anything less than a 200 million addition, we lose! And we're risking (possibly) solid scope, Ltd, retirement. Does that make sense?

And since, much like astral, you won't shed light on what percentage gain we need to make if we torpedo this thing, then I guess we'll stick with mine.

The TA will obviously shed light, so more later.