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Old 03-07-2018, 02:57 PM
  #20  
November Seven
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Joined APC: Feb 2018
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Originally Posted by tm602 View Post
Have you ever actually sat in a Phenom 300?
Thus far:

Phenom 100 and 300 (sat)
CJ3 (sat)
CJ4 (sat w/G3000 demo)
Premier 1 (sat)
Eclipse 500 (sat)
SJ30/SyberJet (never sat)

I thought the Eclipse was interesting, but its size and performance aren't quite at the level of the others. Ironically, the SyberJet (SJ30) is probably the blacksheep of the entire VLJ community right now including being the absolute best performer hands down.

The Sino Swearingen SJ-30. This is where the dream began for me in earnest. I've always dreamed of owning an "airplane" someday since I was a kid. But, it was not until I came across the old SJ-30, that the dream became a Jet Dream (pun definitely intended). The problem with the SJ-30 for me was its stumbling development history. Still, there's nothing with the same performance at cruise, cabin pressurization and long range of the SJ-30/SyberJet, on the market today. The SJ-30 is the little jet that lit the fire for me as an adult many years ago.



Originally Posted by tm602 View Post
Try it out....you'll see the LAST thing any of us want is more range. Especially in the Captain seat if that stupid water barrier is installed.
Now, that's very interesting indeed. One of the most attractive things about the SJ-30 for me was just that, its range, cabin pressurization and cruise speed. For a VLJ it has range approximating medium jets (even more in some cases). At 2,500nm max range, it brought Hilo (PHTO) into question from California. It also brought into focus the concept of a Wet Footprint. And, it launched me into studying Flight Over Water in general (an interesting topic all by itself).

I was learning about the maximum distance an aircraft could fly over water with just one engine after passing a suitable alternate (PNR), as well as how to calculate the ETP on just one engine. As you might imagine, for a non-pilot it got rather confusing - especially when trying to figure out ETOPS calculations.

I figured out that the SJ-30 would in theory have 412nm remaining as it reached the edge of Hilo from KSFO for example (of course, the descent phase would begin before that) which is less than 60 minutes flight time in the cruise config. Considering NBAA IFR reserves, it would stretch the SJ-30's legs further than comfortable for me. Though, on paper alone the number say it would work. However, those numbers don't take into consideration winds aloft which would be a nearly constant headwind for that flight. I would not want to fly that close to reserves given a single engine failure scenario because there is no PNR or ETP between California KSFO or KOAK. Or, said another way the PNR would be the original departure airport, making the ETP, mathematically speaking, infinite for all practical purposes.

Still, the very fact that you can talk about ETP, ETOPS and NBAA IFR reserves from California to Hilo in a VLJ of any kind, is remarkable to say the least and the SJ-30 is the only VLJ on the market where such a discussion is even remotely sane or approachable. I still love this little jet and always will. It is my sincerest hope that someday, SyberJet is able to put the capital behind it sufficient to scale it up to meet the cabin size challenge brought by the others (CJ4, Phenom 300 and PC-24). Everyone's personal opinion about the old Sino Swearingen program aside. If you don't have long range needs and larger cabin size requirements, there is probably no more fun and no better performing VLJ anywhere.

Sea level cabin pressure at FL410 and 430+kts without a tailwind makes long trips short. And, 480+kts in high speed cruise with still more than 2,100nm range. There's no VLJ anywhere on the market even today that comes close and this design is well more than 20 years old. Amazing little airplane. I think the fact that is a "little airplane" has also been part of its problem - its cabin is considerably restrictive and probably even smaller than the much slower and much newer in design, HondaJet.

The HondaJet never made my final cut because its cabin size and range relative to the competition was measurably weaker. At the same time, it was never meant to compete head-to-head with the Phenom 300 or CJ4. However, I really like the HondaJet concept and was very impressed by Honda's methodical approach and their commitment to making it a reality. I think Honda, as a company should be applauded for what they've accomplished with that program. Where others in aviation failed to deliver, Honda having no business aviation background or history actually made it happen - and they did it ahead of schedule. Of course, they were flush with cash when they began the program which never hurts a new airplane design.
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