Originally Posted by
SaltyDog
Cripes amighty. You folks blasting this "one of the big two' cargo crew need some reflection time. Our safety folks haven't said anything, and am sure the ASRS/ASAP reports would have been filed and disseminated like all the rest filed where I work. So I don't think it was us.
I'll be blunt since many here are putting themselves and your pax in harms way by putting way to much faith in a system that has some significant limitations. My comments do not refer to this specific situation that happened to you, but could have very easily been reversed to have occurred.
FACT: You state the other a/c was an emergency aircraft. Many aircraft, (can't speak for the RJ/ERJ's,) but mine and others restrict the TCAS to TA ONLY when you have lost an engine, etc and therefore don't get an RA. Why? cannot guarantee climb performance according to TCAS performance curve. RA's assume full engine capability. Lose an engine, what is your AOM procedure? Do you know what other AOM's say? I don't, I just know that I am not going to trust you to be able to follow your RA (assuming you even have one) when you have declared an emergency. I will avoid you like a mountain. I do not know what caused your emergency or the performance of the crew nor your aircraft
Our and other manuals say TCAS-TA Only with loss of engine(s). Any time I approach an aircraft that has declared an emergency, especially in wx, you should ask to steer clear. The SA of that crew is probably distracted at best. Anything can happen to cause altitude excursions in an emergency. (trim runaway/hydraulic failures/electrical problems/smoke/etc. Take FMS and a/p away from some crews is nearly an emergency <g>)
Slam away. I'll still be suspect of an emergency aircraft in a RA/TA situation.
Sorry, if my comments were considered an attack on the other crew, that wasn't the intent of them at all. I don't suspect that there was an engine failure since they were easily maintaining their altititude and were certainly out climbing us. But you never know.
It was a task saturated environment for all parties for sure. The controller made a mistake and we dealt with it. I truly am sorry if my commetns were thought of as an attack, you bring up many valid points and allow this to continue being a learning experience.
Both aircraft were level at their altitudes and the emergency aircraft had no problems being where they were, we never know the reason for an emergency and I'm certainly glad that it all worked out for the best. This was just a compound situation that hopefully can be a learning experience for all involved. If the other a/c was not in a position to go over the top of us we should have steered well clear, the only problem was weather made that a little challenging.
The original reason any of this was a situation at all was due to controller error, the other aircraft was actually assinged and read back the altitude correctly, they had no way of knowing we were already at that altitude.
Like I said in my earlier post, I completely understand the actions of the other crew, I think this is an opportuninty to ask ourselves what would I do, that's all.